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Old 02-03-2018, 02:05 PM   #21
blackzc
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So a pulitzer prize winning journalist is less factual than one of your racist, bigoted, sexist favs and Breitbart? God you are a stupid fucking moron.
The fact the Dems are fighting this so hard is literally all i need to know. Nothing else, that's it, the fucks have something to hide.

As for pulitzer prize winning journalist. For a nigga like me, all this means to me, now that im woke as fuck...is that this journalist is confirmed my sworn enemy and his master approve of his work. The number of liberals that lean on the media to think for them is unreal.

I came across this 4 times last year in my own family. What kind of news you watch is the only thing that matters. I could give a shit if you want to read Salon and Itsgoingdown all day. Thats on you. Lets debate ya bunch of mental lightweight...Fuck your news outlet of choice.

MSM leans hard left, if your a hard leftist then you would have no complaints, of course. But dont be coming up in hur trying to throw your gold stars around like they mean shit to me. Fuck a pulitzer prize winner.

As for FOX and Brietbart...mostly meh with the occasional good article. Since i have enough IQ to sort through shills and misdirection, i get my news from 4/pol 8pol/zero hedge and dailystormer, my dude.


And el o fucking l for the throwing out the triad of lost arguments. Yeah, im racist, yes women belong in the fucking home and no, i don't tolerate opposing views from people who are attempting to exploit what little altruism i have left, fuck outta here.

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Trump is just going to steamroll the Dems in 2020. They might as well not show up.
Lulz, the dems will not win outside of a major metropolitan area until they go back to blue dog/union style politics, which will require a huge purge.

Remember just 3 years ago when it was reported that the Republican party was dead? Well, they were right, but for the wrong reasons. Now its more powerful than its ever been.

Trump is teaching us how to fight back. I am so thankful for him.
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:29 PM   #22
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You can't call something journalism that isn't factual.You also can't make it up as you go along and claim it's reality. This is just the tip of the iceburg, this memo, the swamp draining is coming. I find it amazing how rattled you precious little snowflakes are. It's truly great.
So a pulitzer prize winning journalist is less factual than one of your racist, bigoted, sexist favs and Breitbart? God you are a stupid fucking moron.
Mojopin, look at this particular complaint of yours from this very thread:
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Originally Posted by Mojopin View Post
No he didn't you, quit lying and putting words in his mouth you stupid fucking asshole.
It's no wonder you can't fathom the issues raised by the memo.

As for your other complaints:
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Originally Posted by Mojopin View Post
You people think you are having a conversation when it's really just going to be 5 dipshits confirming their own opinions and bias among themselves and then trolling ANY counter argument presented by doing EXACTLY what I mentioned in my first fucking sentences. If you aren't sucking Trumps flaccid cock then you are wrong, end of story, GTFO... God some of you people are gluttons for getting trolled, I mean do you like it or something? Why do you even engage in political discussions with these fools?
Considering how you appear to have gone against everything you've complained about (confirmation bias, putting words in people's mouths, etc.), it seems to me your real complaint is that this isn't going in the political direction you want.
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:40 PM   #23
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Of course Mojo, everyone who doesn't think like you morons clearly is a racists, islamophobe, gayphobe whatever your social justice buzz word of the week is. Obama got a nobel prize for being black, that's how much your special little awards that you shitbags give each other really means.

You have a clear cut case here where the Obama administration doctored a phony dossier to actually get the court to even take an interest, never mind that after a year of running this phony collusion story, there's still no actual proof. Meanwhile there's actual proof of weaponizing the Intelligence community against conservatives, the IRS against conservatives, the DOJ against conservatives, and selling uranium to an enemy, also giving billions to an enemy in Iran with no approval.

The left is in a panic and all you intellectually dishonest pieces of shit can do is continue to cry racism every 30 seconds.
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Old 02-03-2018, 08:04 PM   #24
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So a pulitzer prize winning journalist is less factual
Yes. So is a nobel prize winning economist:

Krugman: Trump will destroy the global economy.

LOL. Asshats like you are why he's in office! THANK YOU!

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No he didn't
Oh you showed me!

Spent the last 36 hours on a skiing vacation while you stewed in your own vomit. And in the end, guess what?





lolololololololololololol
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Old 02-04-2018, 12:12 AM   #25
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Yes. So is a nobel prize winning economist:

Krugman: Trump will destroy the global economy.

LOL. Asshats like you are why he's in office! THANK YOU!



Oh you showed me!

Spent the last 36 hours on a skiing vacation while you stewed in your own vomit. And in the end, guess what?





lolololololololololololol
Of course today Krugman's answer would be this is because of Obama that the economy has taken off like it has. Of course. It couldn't be due to President Trump's message and goal of making America great again rather than criticizing America at every turn like Obama and the rest of the democrats did for 8 years and still are. These are people who won't stand for the national anthem and boo parents of murdered 15 year old girls, and also boo the lowest unemployment of blacks ever. At least they're continuing to show how they honestly feel about blacks rather than the lip service they give them while keeping them on the welfare plantation in exchange for votes.
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Old 02-04-2018, 09:22 AM   #26
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No he didn't you, quit lying and putting words in his mouth you stupid fucking asshole. He goes on to talk about bias on both sides and bringing back objectivity. Ignoring anything he had to say you then went on to spew more of your bullshit and not having anything to counter what you were supposedly supposed to be fucking replying too, you fucking weirdo asshat who pretends to be other fucking people and talk shit since you don't have any fucking balls.
First off, thank you for standing up for the idea of not misrepresenting what other people say. Most people seem to think that is fine, but it is a detriment to everyone to let it go. I gave up asking for my ideas to be represented accurately, although I can't help from speculating about why a few people on the forum do it so consistently.

Here are a few of my theories on the subject, and clearly these things can apply to people at any place in the ideological continuum, although some seem associated with extremism.

1. They are trolls. They have endless time and energy to devote to trying to get a rise out of a total stranger. Their online personas are simply a tool they use to troll, so they don't care what arguments or behavior is used to accomplish their objective. Double standards, dishonesty, hypocrisy, nonsense, outright lying, etc. mean absolutely nothing. In fact, they may be useful to bait the suckers. It may be a generational thing, but it makes one wonder what they could possibly get out of it that would make it worth the time? Is it a rush? And addiction? pathological? Perhaps there is a sense of camaraderie in uniting to harass somebody for their thoughts and opinions. One quick note on this is that most states have laws concerning cyberbullying. Mine does and they are aware of my requests to stop being harassed on this forum. It is one of the odd things about cyberbullies and trolls that they are willing to put it all in writing and in public, but I never said we were dealing with geniuses. On the same note, I suggest in all sincerity that even when you lose your temper you try to moderate your language. I can pretty much guarantee that they don't care what names you call them at this point.

So, the trolling thing is my main guess at this point.

2. In it to win it. For whatever reason, some people have developed an extremist ideology and either feel personally threatened by the existence of somebody who does not agree with them, or they feel that they are part of an important battle and that everything they can do to attack the opposition helps a greater cause. It seems misguided to me, but I am sure that some people feel that way.

3. Reading and writing is two horde. Not everyone on this planet can read with comprehension and organize thoughts clearly. For some, complex or nuanced arguments might just be confusing as hell. Nanny, nanny, nanny goat seems an equally valid response as addressing exactly what somebody actually said. Some people might devote a huge amount of time to expressing themselves on this forum but not realize that by failing to reply with integrity they just make their efforts dismissable and insipid and worthless.

4. Complicity. In the social and information bubbles produced by abandoning abjectivity and a social commons, ideas and behavior that should be challenged or tested get rewarded and approved by like minded peers. It is a danger we all face these days, and it is one of the reasons I come here and ask questions and try to express my views. I also really appreciate the few people who completely disagree with me ideologically, but who are willing to at least explain themselves. I'm not sure if anybody appreciates my views on things, but they seem to enjoy it when I point out flaws with the left. I think Venom and Vallor both write pretty well and refrain from the kinds of blatant abuse that would make somebody feel a need to ignore them.

My suggestion (to everyone) is that if you find yourself responding to somebody who you feel is lying or trolling you, who would rather get a rise out of you than engage your ideas, with somebody who would rather defeat you and force you to disappear as opposed to valuing a chance to discuss something with somebody from a different viewpoint, just add them to your ignore list and don't give their comments a second thought. This includes those who absolutely despise everything about me because I am a liberal or because they don't like what I say, etc. Just ignore me rather than harass me.
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Old 02-04-2018, 09:36 AM   #27
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Considering how you appear to have gone against everything you've complained about (confirmation bias, putting words in people's mouths, etc.), it seems to me your real complaint is that this isn't going in the political direction you want.
Venom, I'll just ask you again, why do you call out Mojopin for this type of shit while consistently giving Terran, Spectral, and Blackzc a pass?

Is it loyalty? Is it something back channel? You did it to me, you did it to Mojopin? In my case you specifically sorted back through a couple pages of abusive bullshit and cherry picked my responses only, so I know you saw what was going on, but you can't actually think that kind of conduct is fine when Terran does it but wrong if I do it, can you?

I can't speak for Mojopin, but it seems like we could all use a break from some of this biased behavior. Do you like trolling? Lying? Hypocrisy? Are those things awesome as long as it comes from an anti justice warrior or alt right person or conservative extremist? Do you see any problem at all with discussing a biased memo about a biased process in a biased investigation on a forum in which the members collectively sanction all conduct as long as it is biased?

But more specifically, I am curious, what "political direction" do you think this is going in? I don't think it is going anywhere aside from stirring the pot for Trump loyalists. In fact, I think they did themselves a disservice this time in over hyping this, and the vehicle, Nunes, is grossly flawed for delivering a message of objectivity to complain about the influence of political bias in current happenings in DC.

But, a larger view is that regardless of how frustrated Trump supporters are about this investigation, there are a large number of Americans who think Trump is getting away with a lot of shady shit and they really want to believe that there is some system or process that matters. I feel badly that the Trump/ Russia issue seems to pollute the Russia meddling in our elections issue, which seems like it should have been non-partisan, but has somehow become another partisan football. Hey, a sports reference on super bowl day. Go me!
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Old 02-04-2018, 10:05 AM   #28
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Reading and writing is two horde.
Damned horde. Always go Alliance.

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....why do you call out Mojopin for this type of shit while consistently giving Terran, Spectral, and Blackzc a pass?
Translation: Why aren't you willing to ally with the progressive echo chamber in going to war against conservatives? Hmmmmm?

LOL! Help yourself, as you need it:



Oh, and we won.

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Old 02-04-2018, 11:06 AM   #29
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Venom, I'll just ask you again, why do you call out Mojopin for this type of shit while consistently giving Terran, Spectral, and Blackzc a pass?
I think you're projecting here, and here is why:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojopin
No he didn't you, quit lying and putting words in his mouth you stupid fucking asshole. He goes on to talk about bias on both sides and bringing back objectivity. Ignoring anything he had to say you then went on to spew more of your bullshit and not having anything to counter what you were supposedly supposed to be fucking replying too, you fucking weirdo asshat who pretends to be other fucking people and talk shit since you don't have any fucking balls.
First off, thank you for standing up for the idea of not misrepresenting what other people say. Most people seem to think that is fine, but it is a detriment to everyone to let it go. I gave up asking for my ideas to be represented accurately, although I can't help from speculating about why a few people on the forum do it so consistently.
Also already pointed out, Mojopin did in this very thread what you're thanking him for calling out. Why aren't you calling Mojopin out for the very offenses you deem worthy of being called out? Why does Phoenix get a pass from you? Why do you break your own apparent rules?

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Is it loyalty? Is it something back channel? You did it to me, you did it to Mojopin? In my case you specifically sorted back through a couple pages of abusive bullshit and cherry picked my responses only, so I know you saw what was going on, but you can't actually think that kind of conduct is fine when Terran does it but wrong if I do it, can you?
Are these the reasons you ignore Phoenix's posts which go against your on and off standard? You saw that I pointed out Mojopin's hypocrisy, yet you've thank him for his hypocritical, partisan stance anyways. It's clear that you did, hence the questioning of it.

Here is what I think: I think you're disingenuous. I don't think you're interested in a discussion, but you're interested in trying to insist that those not in agreement with you play by a different set of rules. If you're so insistent that I do so, why aren't you doing so? This seems incredibly hypocritical of you, especially given your thanking Mojopin in this very thread. Do you see why I would find your calls here to be disingenuous?

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Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
I can't speak for Mojopin, but it seems like we could all use a break from some of this biased behavior. Do you like trolling? Lying? Hypocrisy? Are those things awesome as long as it comes from an anti justice warrior or alt right person or conservative extremist? Do you see any problem at all with discussing a biased memo about a biased process in a biased investigation on a forum in which the members collectively sanction all conduct as long as it is biased?

But more specifically, I am curious, what "political direction" do you think this is going in? I don't think it is going anywhere aside from stirring the pot for Trump loyalists. In fact, I think they did themselves a disservice this time in over hyping this, and the vehicle, Nunes, is grossly flawed for delivering a message of objectivity to complain about the influence of political bias in current happenings in DC.

But, a larger view is that regardless of how frustrated Trump supporters are about this investigation, there are a large number of Americans who think Trump is getting away with a lot of shady shit and they really want to believe that there is some system or process that matters. I feel badly that the Trump/ Russia issue seems to pollute the Russia meddling in our elections issue, which seems like it should have been non-partisan, but has somehow become another partisan football. Hey, a sports reference on super bowl day. Go me!
Whimbrel, you just applauded someone for their hypocrisy, lying, and what could easily be taken as trolling when you thanked Mojopin. Trying to pretend that you're somehow against it is not honest, especially when you've taken part in the same behavior when it suited your politics. What's wrong with discussing the biased memo? The portions selected for discussion, testimony from the FBI itself, is suddenly to be excused because it was listed in a memo from Republicans? They didn't create the testimony itself. As I tried to help Phoenix through earlier, the facts presented are not being debated by the liberals with any idea of what's going on, they're simply arguing that they don't present enough information to draw a complete picture, thereby framing the discussion incorrectly.

I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't go anywhere. Yet, that's not shocking. The FBI was showed flagrant corruption before this on the national stage, yet we're all to pretend they're somehow beyond reproach suddenly?

I'm sure there are a large number of Americans who think Trump is getting away with a lot of shady stuff, and how many get that idea from the dossier? Foreign meddling should be a concern, yet why isn't it a concern that the FBI appears to have used a loudly anti-Trump foreigner's report based upon second-hand information from what seems to be Russians, who was being paid by his political opponent, and then corroborated by itself to spy on Americans related to the Trump campaign?

The FBI had already revealed itself as a corrupt machine by ignoring the egregious offenses that was Hillary's private server, and now this comes out? The FBI clearing a candidate that obviously and openly broke the law, with the FBI simultaneously going after others for having classified information, and then the foundation of their push at the FISC is from a vocal anti-Trump foreigner with second-hand intel from.... Russia, and you don't see the issue here?

With the meddling, you say you want it to be a non-partisan issue, yet it's almost always used as a partisan attack. Many on the Left want to pretend Russian twitter-bots and Facebook ads stole the election from Hillary, despite their use not even being uniformly pro-Trump.
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Old 02-04-2018, 11:21 AM   #30
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Venom, oh wise, "calm" veteran of the EA forums, I think you've stood a little too close to way too much ordinance in your day in time. I'm only guessing that is why you say something as fact without actually proving, you clearly don't understand how a reply works and how people ANSWER said reply so let me help you out since those knocks to the head have obviously made you incredibly slow.

I was quoted and then replied to with:
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Originally Posted by SpectralThundr View Post
You can't call something journalism that isn't factual.
THAT is WHAT he REPLIED to ME with, get it? Inferring that my link wasn't factual. If he was inferring that "in general", I'm sure he would have placed it in front. You see how that works now? Good...

I have more but I'm at work now, I just wanted to squash your bullshit right here and now that I am somehow doing what I am protesting against, just because you say something doesn't mean it's true. It's one of many common tactics you and your alt-right brethren use and it's obvious at this point. I mean you did it with Wimbrel too and it was obvious, "I think you are projecting here", without really answering his valid question. You kinda have to prove shit if you are going to say it and you failed, as you so often do. So in other words, FUCK YOU AND SUCK MY DICK for calling me a liar you moronic asshole. Anyway, back to your alt-right echo chamber, I'll respond to more of the bullshit I'm reading later, if I have the time...

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Old 02-04-2018, 11:32 AM   #31
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Damned horde. Always go Alliance.
You've got no balls Johan... I don't know what is weirder, how you normalized pedophilia in an attempt to win at an argument or your use aliases that have actually different personalities and where you act like a complete asshole with no merit. I must admit, you are good at altering personality, too bad it's left you without a leg to stand on as far as reliability of the things you say about yourself. It's all just lies now, glad you proved yourself to be a big piece of shit liar. It makes ignoring even easier... Not to mention your prediction about Nintendo going through that FAIL period you so gleefully expected to happen? You should go back to acting like Johan, maybe you'll actually be able to make accurate gaming predictions instead of shit ones like with Terran.
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Old 02-04-2018, 11:38 AM   #32
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<bitter liberal tears, nonsense ramblings>
LOL! Guess what?



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Old 02-04-2018, 11:44 AM   #33
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And THERE YOU HAVE IT folks...exactly what we all knew and exactly why the Dems and their ideological warriors in the DOJ and FBI did NOT want this memo released.

It proves once and for all that the entire 'Russian collusion' storyline is a politcial hit job built on a pile of bullshit.

FUCK YOU DEMS. You did it with the IRS, you did it with the FBI and DOJ. FUCK YOU for politicizing apolitical institutions and for denying you ever even did it when the evidence is obvious and everywhere. War. You want war? Let's go then.
Except that the memo doesn't do ANY of those things.

The memo presupposes that the impetus to Trump being connected with Russia comes from the Michael Steele dossier. It does not. The impetus for investigation into Trumps associations with Russia comes from Trump's own bizarre, erratic statements about Russia before the Steele dossier existed. Do you not remember Trump calling for Russia to hack the United States? On camera? In front of the entire country?

Stop the bullshit. This is trying to gaslight the entire country who was THERE when yhese things were happening in real time. Nobody is making up Trumps connections with Russia. All this started when Trump WOULDNT STOP TALKING ABOUT RUSSIA.
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Old 02-04-2018, 11:45 AM   #34
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Except that the memo doesn't do ANY of those things.
Because you said so!

#Shatinurpants
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Old 02-04-2018, 12:00 PM   #35
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Venom, oh wise, "calm" veteran of the EA forums, I think you've stood a little too close to way too much ordinance in your day in time. I'm only guessing that is why you say something as fact without actually proving, you clearly don't understand how a reply works and how people ANSWER said reply so let me help you out since those knocks to the head have obviously made you incredibly slow.

I was quoted and then replied to with:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpectralThundr View Post
You can't call something journalism that isn't factual.
THAT is WHAT he REPLIED to ME with, get it? Inferring that my link wasn't factual. If he was inferring that "in general", I'm sure he would have placed it in front. You see how that works now? Good...

I have more but I'm at work now, I just wanted to squash your bullshit right here and now that I am somehow doing what I am protesting against, just because you say something doesn't mean it's true. It's one of many common tactics you and your alt-right brethren use and it's obvious at this point. I mean you did it with Wimbrel too and it was obvious, "I think you are projecting here", without really answering his valid question. You kinda have to prove shit if you are going to say it and you failed, as you so often do. So in other words, FUCK YOU AND SUCK MY DICK for calling me a liar you moronic asshole. Anyway, back to your alt-right echo chamber, I'll respond to more of the bullshit I'm reading later, if I have the time...
Here is actually what you Spectral fully responded with and you doing exactly what you complained had occurred to other posters:
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Originally Posted by Mojopin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpectralThundr View Post
You can't call something journalism that isn't factual.You also can't make it up as you go along and claim it's reality. This is just the tip of the iceburg, this memo, the swamp draining is coming. I find it amazing how rattled you precious little snowflakes are. It's truly great.
So a pulitzer prize winning journalist is less factual than one of your racist, bigoted, sexist favs and Breitbart? God you are a stupid fucking moron.
Where did Spectral mention Breitbart or any other source in his response to you? He didn't, but you felt free to put words in his mouth as if he had pointed you to Breitbart or one of his "racist, bigoted, and sexist favs." Remember, you whined that others posters were doing that in this very thread. Now you could argue that your perception is that is what Spectral's stance is, but what your wrote isn't what he said -- yet you took exception when you perceived Terran doing such a thing. It seems like you're living by "Rules for thee, but not for me."

I did answer Whimbrel's question, so you should try to read it again to understand it.

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Except that the memo doesn't do ANY of those things.

The memo presupposes that the impetus to Trump being connected with Russia comes from the Michael Steele dossier. It does not. The impetus for investigation into Trumps associations with Russia comes from Trump's own bizarre, erratic statements about Russia before the Steele dossier existed. Do you not remember Trump calling for Russia to hack the United States? On camera? In front of the entire country?

Stop the bullshit. This is trying to gaslight the entire country who was THERE when yhese things were happening in real time. Nobody is making up Trumps connections with Russia. All this started when Trump WOULDNT STOP TALKING ABOUT RUSSIA.
The Russian collusion story is based around the FBI investigating Trump's campaign over ties to Russians. The FBI appears to have needed the Steele dossier to obtain approval from the FISC in order to launch an investigation into this. Yes, people are making up Trump connections to Russia. You don't think you read the release.
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Old 02-04-2018, 12:33 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by VenomUSMC View Post

1. Whimbrel, you just applauded someone for their hypocrisy, lying, and what could easily be taken as trolling when you thanked Mojopin.

2. What's wrong with discussing the biased memo?

3. ... we're all to pretend they're somehow beyond reproach suddenly?

4. The FBI had already revealed itself as a corrupt machine by ignoring the egregious offenses that was Hillary's private server, and now this comes out?

5. With the meddling, you say you want it to be a non-partisan issue, yet it's almost always used as a partisan attack. Many on the Left want to pretend Russian twitter-bots and Facebook ads stole the election from Hillary, despite their use not even being uniformly pro-Trump.
6. Your point from the other thread about if the biased information in the dossier matters or not.


I am going to attempt to be fair here, but if you object to the way I have condensed your comments I will accept your corrections.

First, a point you skipped from my earlier post, do you, Venom, support or condemn misrepresenting somebody's comments in this forum, lying, putting words in somebody's mouth, etc? Yes or no. If yes, please explain how you justify this, and if no, I wish you would call it out regardless of who is doing it. Every time I have asked this specifically of you you have avoided answering and have written about my conduct. You should be able to answer this without any reference to me or any relation to my actions or positions. Even if I am the biggest lying, disingenuous hypocriet who has ever walked the earth, you should be able to decide for yourself what you are for or against and whether you think it is right for someone to misrepresent my comments or anyone else's comments.

Now, about your specific points about me projecting, being dishonest, Mojopin and Phoenix. I will try to be clear and specific here, but I am getting tired of it. I was thanking Mojopin for standing up for the idea that it is chicken shit to misrepresent my comments in an attack against something I wrote. No more, no less. It is something I asked for weeks ago and I found zero support for it. I found that frustrating and disappointing. However, the larger point here is that I don't want anybody using those tactics in general or in this forum on either side of the political ideology. It is wrong if I do it. It is wrong if Phoenix does it. It is wrong if you do it. It is wrong if Mojopin does it. I don't know how much clearer I can make this or how I can spell it out. Thanking him for a specific thing is not a blanket endorsement for everything he writes, does or thinks. Nor is it a blanket condemnation of everything anyone else does, writes or thinks. I can't believe you are making me spell this out. I know you are smarter than this, but I feel like you are making me spell out how this works as if you were some kind of imbecile, which I don't think either of us believes. When it comes to misstating somebody else's statements, I am against it, blanket. If you feel that makes me a hypocrite, I can completely live with that, but I hope I don't have to retrace this issue with you again. Most of what you used to question my integrity referred to some comments between Mojopin and Phoenix from a different thread that had nothing to do with what I was referring to in my comments here. I have not read those comments in that other thread but to the extent that anybody misrepresented anybody else's comments, I oppose that, and to the extent that anybody condemned that practice, I endorse it. That seems pretty consistent with what I have been saying here.

2. There is nothing wrong with discussing a biased memo. This is exactly what we should be discussing. My point was that the critique of something being flawed due to implicit bias rings hollow on a forum where I can only get one person to even address the question of the memo specifically, Nunes recused himself because his actions demonstrated that he was biased in favor of working with the White House. I think this is accepted as fact. So, if that recusal means anything, or the principles upon which the recusal mean anything, then this whole memo becomes rather impotent. Add to that Republicans on the committee saying it is no big deal, and I think we have something of a dud.

3. I don't think we should treat anybody as beyond reproach or above the law, although the current political atmosphere of partisanship seems to be poisoning the process in every direction simultaneously. I think that is a pretty big problem.

4. I disagree here. I don't think any of the shit with Hilary Clinton's emails was egregious or willful or caused much problem. On the overall scale of what harm this server caused, I think we are still looking for the problem of mass destruction. On the one hand, was there some problem with her emails? Sure. Did anything happen because of it? ........... So, egregious seems a bit of a stretch. More like inconsequential.

5. I think you may be correct about people on the left, but again, I think we need to move past that and look at this from a non partisan issue and just come together to object to foreign agents meddling in our electoral process regardless of motive or partisan affiliation. Seems like Republicans could take time out from playing defense on this and just uniformly and loudly oppose this, regardless of what the left is doing about it.

6. I think we need to see what the facts are before we start making judgments about the proper or improper use of this dossier. We already have committee members saying that the memo cherry picks information about the role of this dossier and is deliberately misleading, so I am hesitant to be deliberately mislead. Quick thought experiment. Let's say I hate my neighbor because his dog keeps crapping on my flower patch. I hire a private firm to research and document this because I want to send this fucker to jail forever. I use my private funds to hire a private firm with the express biased intention of destroying this asshole's life for all eternity. I mean, this whole thing is biased to all fuck. Then my private firm discovers that he is a secret agent for Russia, turns this evidence over to the proper authorities, who follow the legal process to follow accepted procedure from then on. So, the fact that the dossier had a biased intent does not mean that it could not still be part of a legitimate process. Add to that Nunes' bias, the cherry picking, etc, and I have a hard time feeling like the sky is falling over this. Having said that, if people did break laws or act badly, they should absolutely be held accountable, but at this point, it seems like there are a lot of unanswered questions. To be clear, anybody who acted improperly should be held accountable, regardless of partisan affiliation. I have no objection to moving this towards fuller transparency and investigation.
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Old 02-04-2018, 12:55 PM   #37
SpectralThundr
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LOL Hillary's just innocent and pure and pefect!! She totally didn't break any laws by having her OWN PRIVATE SERVER WITH CLASSIFIED INFORMATION ON IT or Huma's phone, or Weiner's phone. Good god. What the fuck is wrong with you Whimbrel? How far gone are you?

How's this for a non partisan issue, cleaning the corruption up in DC in both parties, is that non partisan enough for you? Or does your advocacy of big government over the people make the idea of that too partisan for you? You seem far more worried about partisan politics than actual honestly. The fact of the matter is the court rejected spying on Trump, which btw, illegal, until a partisan Steele report filled with phony information bought and paid for by the DNC created this Russia mess. Partisan politics at it's best, and here's little Whimbrel cheering it on while bitching about partisan politics. Again please stop being intellectually dishonest.
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Old 02-04-2018, 02:15 PM   #38
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^ He types all that up to appear to be objective and unbiased. This is were the left is, they have no argument. All they can do is back into their corner while trying to bargain. I actually kinda feel for Whim and Mojo, they are about 5 mins from having no political voice for their foundation school marxist ideology. Its all a lie designed to D&C the country. This is going to be quite the wake up call for them both.

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Stop the bullshit. This is trying to gaslight the entire country who was THERE when yhese things were happening in real time. Nobody is making up Trumps connections with Russia. All this started when Trump WOULDNT STOP TALKING ABOUT RUSSIA.
Just because the MSM has decided to go with the Russia narrative for over a fucking year does not make this (real time) nor give it validity. They sat in an office and planned this shit out. This is the topic they decided to use to de-legitimize Trump. And as Venom said, Fusion GPS provided the memo, that started this, it was fabricated from nothing and paid for by the now broke DNC.

This shit was planned from the get go. Prolly because Trump has a Slav wife, this gives it credit.
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Old 02-04-2018, 05:42 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
I am going to attempt to be fair here, but if you object to the way I have condensed your comments I will accept your corrections.
I don't agree that you're going to attempt to be fair, and I'll explain why I feel this way below.

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Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
First, a point you skipped from my earlier post, do you, Venom, support or condemn misrepresenting somebody's comments in this forum, lying, putting words in somebody's mouth, etc? Yes or no. If yes, please explain how you justify this, and if no, I wish you would call it out regardless of who is doing it. Every time I have asked this specifically of you you have avoided answering and have written about my conduct. You should be able to answer this without any reference to me or any relation to my actions or positions. Even if I am the biggest lying, disingenuous hypocriet who has ever walked the earth, you should be able to decide for yourself what you are for or against and whether you think it is right for someone to misrepresent my comments or anyone else's comments.
No, I don't support such things, but it's not as simple as that. Do you support it? As you've stated in this post of yours, you do not. Despite that, your track record shows that you only appear to target those who political oppose you. So, if this were an honest question, which I don't believe it is, I would be able to simply say yes or no and leave it at that, but I don't believe your question to be an honest one. Considering I don't believe you to be genuine in much of your stances, considering that you've now repeatedly asked that I take posters who happen to be your political opponents to task for what you perceive as hypocrisy and yet you don't take those politically aligned with you to task. Is it because you don't see them as hypocrites, it's merely how you wish to spend your time on the board, you simply don't care because they're echoing your views, or something else?

You do consistently say you're against this, yet you only seem to take offense when a political opponent of yours does something which you perceive as breaking one of these rules. As stated, you don't critique Mojopin or Phoenix, and I don't think you're required to do so.

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Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
Now, about your specific points about me projecting, being dishonest, Mojopin and Phoenix. I will try to be clear and specific here, but I am getting tired of it. I was thanking Mojopin for standing up for the idea that it is chicken shit to misrepresent my comments in an attack against something I wrote. No more, no less. It is something I asked for weeks ago and I found zero support for it. I found that frustrating and disappointing. However, the larger point here is that I don't want anybody using those tactics in general or in this forum on either side of the political ideology. It is wrong if I do it. It is wrong if Phoenix does it. It is wrong if you do it. It is wrong if Mojopin does it. I don't know how much clearer I can make this or how I can spell it out. Thanking him for a specific thing is not a blanket endorsement for everything he writes, does or thinks. Nor is it a blanket condemnation of everything anyone else does, writes or thinks. I can't believe you are making me spell this out. I know you are smarter than this, but I feel like you are making me spell out how this works as if you were some kind of imbecile, which I don't think either of us believes. When it comes to misstating somebody else's statements, I am against it, blanket. If you feel that makes me a hypocrite, I can completely live with that, but I hope I don't have to retrace this issue with you again. Most of what you used to question my integrity referred to some comments between Mojopin and Phoenix from a different thread that had nothing to do with what I was referring to in my comments here. I have not read those comments in that other thread but to the extent that anybody misrepresented anybody else's comments, I oppose that, and to the extent that anybody condemned that practice, I endorse it. That seems pretty consistent with what I have been saying here.
You're now saying it's wrong for anyone, to include you and me, to do such a thing. I'd find that agreeable if I felt it were genuine. You've take exception to such examples of hypocrisy and only asked that I then do the same to those who you disagree with, but never asked that others in agreement with you be targeted. Furthermore, you've never pointed to the failure of others in political agreement with you to abide by what you felt were standards which should be met. You've broken such standards yourself when it suited the argument. I understand that you felt attacked by others, but if you want to preach principles, facing opposition on a message board shouldn't result in dropping your own standards.

As for Mojopin, yes, I know what you applauded him for. You thanked him for a specific thing, a thing that his posts showed he didn't truly care about. It's evident that you read these threads. Mojo took zero issue putting words in Spectral's mouth and you didn't see a need to point out that he did so. His response to me failed to zero in on what I pointed to (the idea that Spectral offered other sources in response, which he did not), but he largely excused his response as being a result of him inferring things from Spectral. To me, this is a nice spin on his complaints -- when Terran assigns something to you that you didn't explicitly say, it's putting words in your mouth, but when Mojo says something another poster didn't explicitly say, he's inferring things. That's per Mojo, of course, yet it seemed that you thought his protest was genuine; I do not.

So, you're saying that you're against them doing it, but the only posters you really seem to come out against are those not politically aligned with you.

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Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
2. There is nothing wrong with discussing a biased memo. This is exactly what we should be discussing. My point was that the critique of something being flawed due to implicit bias rings hollow on a forum where I can only get one person to even address the question of the memo specifically, Nunes recused himself because his actions demonstrated that he was biased in favor of working with the White House. I think this is accepted as fact. So, if that recusal means anything, or the principles upon which the recusal mean anything, then this whole memo becomes rather impotent. Add to that Republicans on the committee saying it is no big deal, and I think we have something of a dud.
As I've stated before, what I discuss from the memos is classified information that isn't disputed as being true or not to people who read this. People, as I explained to Phoenix, can certainly claim it's simply false, but the real way to try to dismiss it is focusing on the idea that it's cherry picked. That, however, isn't enough in my view, because the FBI itself pointed out how integral the dossier was. Is there damning information that was omitted? That's quite possible, but if it existed, why did the FBI need the dossier to go to the FISC? I can understand viewing the memo as biased, but imagine how hard it is to accept something which doesn't have actual undisputed underlying facts, was paid for by your political opponent, and was delivered by a foreign operative who was later fired for breaking agreements.

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Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
3. I don't think we should treat anybody as beyond reproach or above the law, although the current political atmosphere of partisanship seems to be poisoning the process in every direction simultaneously. I think that is a pretty big problem.
That is what many of the Left are arguing, that it's dangerous to question these institutions.

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Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
4. I disagree here. I don't think any of the shit with Hilary Clinton's emails was egregious or willful or caused much problem. On the overall scale of what harm this server caused, I think we are still looking for the problem of mass destruction. On the one hand, was there some problem with her emails? Sure. Did anything happen because of it? ........... So, egregious seems a bit of a stretch. More like inconsequential.
A egregious is a stretch? You don't think the head of an intelligence agency, despite being told to not do it, who insisted on hosting a private server that wasn't even properly secured and contained classified information isn't an egregious act? The FBI has pushed for charges for people that did far less mishandling of classified information. It seems that Hillary was more concerned with her privacy that protecting this classified information. In her position at the time, she cannot make that call.

You do understand that she had Top Secret information on that server, right?
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Originally Posted by CNN
Top secret is the highest level of government classification and is defined by the government as material that if disclosed "reasonably could be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security."
He was arrested, and the FBI, last I read, didn't believe that he intended to share these documents with anyone. You may read what the FBI filed against him early on here.

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Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
5. I think you may be correct about people on the left, but again, I think we need to move past that and look at this from a non partisan issue and just come together to object to foreign agents meddling in our electoral process regardless of motive or partisan affiliation. Seems like Republicans could take time out from playing defense on this and just uniformly and loudly oppose this, regardless of what the left is doing about it.
The two issues are inherently connected, and therefore you cannot simply ignore what seems to be obvious corruption to focus on what you want to be a nonpartisan issue. Ironically, despite what it seems to most often be portrayed as, what are reported to be Russian ads both attacked and supported a variety of candidates and took a number of pro-liberal and pro-conservative stances, often contradicting each other. When I'm told by the Left that they want to focus on foreign meddling, meaning now the foreign meddling that was the Steele dossier, but reported Russian bots and ads, they seem to most often use them as a way to claim this presidency is illegitimate. If you're concerned over foreign meddling, where is the concern for the Steele dossier being so important for the FBI, per the FBI, to go to the FISC? While I think it's ludicrous to suggest ignoring it, how is that even feasible when it seems that the process to investigate foreign meddling, which it seems you don't count the Steele dossier, when many of the very corrupt people appear to be involved in that? Why would I even dream that to be nonpartisan?

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Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
6. I think we need to see what the facts are before we start making judgments about the proper or improper use of this dossier. We already have committee members saying that the memo cherry picks information about the role of this dossier and is deliberately misleading, so I am hesitant to be deliberately mislead. Quick thought experiment. Let's say I hate my neighbor because his dog keeps crapping on my flower patch. I hire a private firm to research and document this because I want to send this fucker to jail forever. I use my private funds to hire a private firm with the express biased intention of destroying this asshole's life for all eternity. I mean, this whole thing is biased to all fuck. Then my private firm discovers that he is a secret agent for Russia, turns this evidence over to the proper authorities, who follow the legal process to follow accepted procedure from then on. So, the fact that the dossier had a biased intent does not mean that it could not still be part of a legitimate process. Add to that Nunes' bias, the cherry picking, etc, and I have a hard time feeling like the sky is falling over this. Having said that, if people did break laws or act badly, they should absolutely be held accountable, but at this point, it seems like there are a lot of unanswered questions. To be clear, anybody who acted improperly should be held accountable, regardless of partisan affiliation. I have no objection to moving this towards fuller transparency and investigation.
We have seen facts which indicate it was improperly used. The FBI doesn't deny the declassified facts about how the dossier was used. You don't think it's improper to not tell the FISC about the facts the FBI omitted, or that it used the dossier to corroborate itself?

That's not an analogy of what the Steele dossier or the process. Lets say this: You're running for election and your opponent wants dirt on you to ruin your chances. Your opponent pays a firm that pays a foreign agent to get this dirt. This foreign agent speaks with people who spoke with Russians about the bad things you did. That foreign agent takes the second hand accounts of what you said, compiles it into a dossier, and gives it to the authorities. The authorities, some of whom have ignored your opponent openly breaking a series of laws and carried out and investigation against your opponent which was not the accepted process, take your dossier. They look at the dossier, say they can't confirm it, but there are news articles based upon the dossier which corroborate it, so they head to the FISC based upon this. At the FISC, they use the dossier and it's self-corroboration, which isn't a thing nor normal, to get permission to spy on people related to your campaign. The people involved in this later testify that they knew the person who put the dossier together was anti-you, paid by your opponents, and they couldn't corroborate anything as they fired the foreign agent because they knew he was leaking to the very media they used to corroborate the dossier, but they didn't tell the courts.

I'm not critical of the dossier because it was obviously financed and performed from an incredibly biased position, I'm critical of the dossier because of the horrible job the FBI did with it. A job so terrible that it seems to be their own political biases at play, which is to say corruption.

Now I am curious, what do you think the meddling that the Trump and/or linked people are accused of is?
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Old 02-04-2018, 07:50 PM   #40
Terran
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There is nothing wrong with discussing a biased memo.
Hahahaha! Nice framing of the debate. Wrong, but nice try. But let's roll with your perspective on discussion:

'There is nothing wrong with discussing how far up your ass your head is currently.'

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I don't think we should treat anybody as beyond reproach or above the law
Except when you argue for exactly that in your next point regarding Shillary.

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I don't think any of the shit with Hilary Clinton's emails was egregious or willful or caused much problem.
Gee, that's great. And, the law doesn't give a SHIT how you feel about any of that, because possession of highly sensitive information such as she held on her own unprotected personal server is illegal.

She should be in jail, but I'm just happy to know she was able to stick around free and easy so she could lose the election for you.

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I think we need to move past that and look at this from a non partisan issue
How big and openminded of you, considering your views on the "biased memo" and how Hillary's mishandling of classified material wasn't a "problem." Nonpartisan is your middle name!

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I think we need to see what the facts are before we start making judgments
You've made numerous judgments prior to this statement, dumbass.

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