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Old 02-22-2018, 07:00 AM   #41
Wizzkidd
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While I can say I had a very similar experience as you (right down to my love for the line, "Some motherfuckas are always trying to iceskate uphill."), our collective experience would be a little different from those who are part of a demographic that represents a mere 12-14% of the population.

People are excited because this is a highly publicized, mainstream movie featuring a black main character and a predominantly black cast that isn't a brooding, angry vampire hunter with a secret stash of weapons; a brooding, angry military assassin-turned-demonic-warrior; Shaq with a hammer; Shaft or Madea. Black Panther is different from the rest; he's the king of a highly advanced society that isn't generically angry and brooding, nor does he fall into many of the tropes folks are accustomed to seeing.

I'm not saying that everyone needs characters that look like them at all times...but, it's pretty cool that kids who aren't white finally have a character who isn't a square-jawed white dude or a sidekick in the MCU.
No, y'all need to give person credit where it is due. I know that's against your knee-jerk reaction, but it is still deserved.

Mr. Chimpbot, I understand and agree with you. Too many minority kids have never had their own hero. I really hope this is it for them, or even the start of a new beginning. Just like Wonder Woman was for females. I am seriously happy for anyone who identifies with this character and is happy.

All I am trying to say, is that I never had that. I never have thought about race, until recently when there have been racists at my job. I grew up between Seattle and a southern California town named Santa Paula, where I was a minority. I can't assume the feelings of everyone. I was lucky that my parents never really talked about race. My first gf was a half black/half white girl.

In modern America, as of today, I feel like I am supposed to be some kind of apologetic shitbag, according to the media and some movements. Firstly, my parents were born in Canada, and before them England and so on. So regardless of whatever they did, my ancestors didn't have slaves in this country. I also am an Army veteran, which to me means I was willing and able to die for this country. I am also a gun owning citizen, because I want to keep me and my wife safe.

All of this is really bubbling up because of how the media makes me feel like I am a piece of shit. You and I had nothing to do with the recent shooting, the Vegas one, or the 9/11 bombings. In fact those are what made me enlist.

Anyway, this is way off topic. BP is a good movie. It really is. Anyone who says otherwise needs to explain their reasons. Film is subjective, so of course there will be those who don't like it. My favorite films are Alien, Predator, and now Batman v Superman Ultimate cut, and I will debate them for eternity. So anyone who feels the same about BP deserves their opinion. When it becomes more than a conversation about the film, I start to become suspicious. What are people really saying, and what are their motives? I never attribute my own life meaning to that of a film character. But I do enjoy imagining if I was Arnold in the Predator (DO IT NOWWWW!).
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:25 AM   #42
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Batman v Superman Ultimate cut
Does it shorten the film to 90 minutes? If not, there's nothing ultimate about it. That was a terrible movie!
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"...boys lining up outside a room to take a turn gang raping a woman?...I went to frat parties where shit like this was going down
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:48 AM   #43
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I'm not white, I didn't have a problem with all my heroes being whatever color they were because I'm not a racist.

I keep hearing good things about this movie. I will watch it probably this weekend. The red letter media review was probably the most honest one, the rest are very hyperbolic on either side.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:45 AM   #44
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Does it shorten the film to 90 minutes? If not, there's nothing ultimate about it. That was a terrible movie!
The Ultimate Cut makes it longer and a stronger film. It goes from being a bad film to a perfectly watchable film.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:48 AM   #45
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I can't imagine longer making BvS better. I thought my dad had died while watching it, as he had fallen asleep it was so boring.

One of my least favorite comic films of all time, right at the bottom along with Thor: Ragnarok ("Three Stooges Thor.").
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:37 AM   #46
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The Ultimate Cut helps flesh out the characters and the story more, so that when stupid shit happens ("Martha!?"), it does not stick with you as long and there are better character payoffs overall. It is not for everyone (it is three hours long) but for anyone who cares, it does make the film substantially better.
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Old 02-22-2018, 03:26 PM   #47
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An interesting opinion I heard is true: I've never went into a Superman, Captain America, or Arnold film thinking "Wow, this movie shows how a white guy can be a hero." I've never cared or thought about that. I loved Superman because I saw him when I was a little kid, and that has stayed with me. I loved Blade and (yes, even) Spawn when they came out, and continue to rewatch them to this day. When Blade says "Some motherfuckas are always trying to iceskate uphill." I think/thought that was one of the best lines ever spoken. I quote it every chance I get!

When I was young, I was a fan of films like "Blood in Blood Out" and "Friday" and numerous other films that didn't have anything to do with white people. It doesn't matter to me. A good movie is a good movie. Why have people forgotten that? I just hate feeling like I'm some kind of asshole because I happen to be white. I'm married to an Asian girl (fuck yeah), and I'm the first in my family to be born in the USA. I also served in the Army. Point is, the modern race talk leaves me feeling alienated. It doesn't involve or have anything to do with me. And it also irritates me.
I have a friend, white, who literally didnít understand the plot of The Phantom Menace as a little girl because she thought that Mace Windu was a bad guy because he was black.

Congratulations to you as a white person for not caring that white characters in the movies you watch are white. But for the rest of the world, representation has actual effects on the way people perceive the world.
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Old 02-22-2018, 03:51 PM   #48
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Congratulations to you, Jiz, for being a racist. You going on vacation with blackzc?
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:22 PM   #49
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I avoided much of the hype, and it didn't really affect my enjoyment of the movie. I didn't know anything about the Kilmonger character, but I don't really like family drama type plots in superhero movies. I like one goofy bad guy versus a goofy good guy. I've mentioned before that I mostly stopped reading comics in the mid 1980's, so there has been a ton of shit that I never knew about. But after reading most of the posts in this thread, I don't know if anybody has shared one of my main gripes which is that all of the MArvel characters are becoming various versions of Iron Man. Spider man has an iron man suit. War machine is an iron man suit. Ant man and the wasp are kind of Iron man suits, but they were built by somebody else. Vision was some kind of iron man something, although if I ever read his actual origin story in the comics, it was so long ago I have no idea what it is. But, Black Panther was just a guy who kicked a lot of ass. He had some claws in his gloves, but that was about it. Now his suit does more than he does, glows purple, has its own AI, fits in a necklace and self deploys, on and on. He is more of a tech guy than a ass kicking guy with no special powers. Does he have a repulsor beam and foot rockets yet? Why the fuck not? Everybody else has those now. Anyway, that was mostly it. Just bummed that they made him a power suit guy more than he used to be.
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:35 PM   #50
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I can't imagine longer making BvS better. I thought my dad had died while watching it, as he had fallen asleep it was so boring.

One of my least favorite comic films of all time, right at the bottom along with Thor: Ragnarok ("Three Stooges Thor.").
Duuuuuuuude. BvS is so beautiful and amazing. When Bruce Wayne is holding the little girl in the beginning, and staring up at the sky as Superman is fighting Zod (connecting it to the prior film better than any movie I've seen), he has this look on his face that tells the viewer all of the reasons and motivations that he'll have for the whole movie. Without saying a word, he says "This can NEVER happen again."

The opening scene that tells the story of how Bruce's parents die is one of my favorite scenes in any movie ever. I'll often turn on the film just to watch that, or show others.

Obviously I could go on forever, but I won't, I'm on the phone at work, plugged into position in the tower. I know that many people don't like it, don't get it, or don't want to like it or get it. That just makes it more MINE!
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:41 PM   #51
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...he has this look on his face...
Looked more like he was constipated than emotional to me.

To each his own! You loved the film, I hate it for almost killing my dad.
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:56 PM   #52
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Congratulations to you, Jiz, for being a racist. You going on vacation with blackzc?
You can keep saying over and over again that acknowledging the racial construct that the wold has created is racist, but it only continues to make you look more and more stupid. Is your next act to argue that wearing raincoats makes it rain?
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Old 02-22-2018, 06:30 PM   #53
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I have a friend, white, who literally didn’t understand the plot of The Phantom Menace as a little girl because she thought that Mace Windu was a bad guy because he was black.

Congratulations to you as a white person for not caring that white characters in the movies you watch are white. But for the rest of the world, representation has actual effects on the way people perceive the world.
What a thought provoking and totally not imagined story. I assume you lectured her about her white privilege and unfriended on facebook.

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You can keep saying over and over again that acknowledging the racial construct that the wold has created is racist, but it only continues to make you look more and more stupid. Is your next act to argue that wearing raincoats makes it rain?
Your white guilt is showing.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:17 PM   #54
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...
Racist say what now?

You see race in everything. Just like a racist.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:21 PM   #55
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Your white guilt is showing.
That would be quite a trick.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:23 PM   #56
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Racist say what now?
Terran everybody. Rhetoric hot from the playground straight to your eyeballs. The idea that your worldview is formed in the sandbox next to the swing set actually explains a whole heck of a lot.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:26 PM   #57
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lol. Your worldview is that of the KKK, you just happen to be on the flip side of the racist coin. You see race everywhere. Blame whomever you want, you're trapped in a worldview limited by the lens of 'race, race, race' all around you.

Racist. You are racist.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:49 PM   #58
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Terran: It isn't a bad thing to realize there is still racial injustice in the world.

Jaz: It isn't a bad thing to realize not everything is coated with layers of racial injustice.

There is power in heroes and the inspiration. I think it has less to do with identifying with how they look as much as it has to do with the concept but it is surprising how people will argue a point. I am not a 6 foot 2 blonde and buff super solider from Brooklyn but that didn't stop me from being inspired by Captain America when I was a kid.

The patriotism and nobility of doing the right thing even at great personal cost resonated. The courage to stay the course, duty and loyalty to friends and country. These inspired me.

That said, it isn't always true. Sometimes I think skin tone does amplify the message. I don't think MLKs "I have a Dream" speech would have been as powerful coming from a white person nor would the Gettysburg Address been as powerful coming from a black person. JFKs report on Civil Rights, turning the issue from a legal issue to a moral issue would not have been nearly as impactful coming from a black person.

But Black Panther is just a movie which happened to be a great opportunity to showcase some great black actors playing astounding character in a fantasy sci-fi world.
People paying close attention would have noticed real African tribal traditions being showcased such as scar patterns, face painting, masks, dances, ancestor worship, and other traditions which 99.9% of Americans (Black or otherwise) probably have no idea the significance. They added texture for people who were paying attention but likely could have been replaced with other artifacts without folks noticing.

If it inspires people to see people who look like them doing astounding things? GREAT; but I think that is the shallowest of all hopes and will make the smallest of differences than people inspired by the deeper problems of open borders, nationalism, charity, family betrayal, kingdom vs. democracy, resource hording, tribalism in general, and so many other issues which could be deeper conversations including, frankly, if some of black people watching the movie own any of the heritage they see depicted in the movie.

I remember hearing if we go back enough generations (100?) we can all find a common ancestor. At what point does someone get to claim a heritage?

What a sticky wicket we have! Anyway, you get the point.
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:47 AM   #59
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As I was rewatching great speeches as references for my last post I ran across Obama's 2008 election night speech (among others, like Reagan's "Tear down this Wall" and RFK's announcement of MLK's assassination).

Holy hell, he was such a great speaker. If the democrats weren't so damn invested in forced diversity, political correctness, spending other people's money I might still admit he's one of my favorite Presidents.

Too bad I can't get the Trump agenda with the eloquence and dignity of Obama.
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Old 02-23-2018, 06:37 AM   #60
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Obama was great at reading speeches written by other people. Every time he tried speaking on his own he bumbled his way through sentences worse than George W.
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