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Old 12-19-2016, 12:50 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by MADxMrMike View Post
However I like how they handled the Force for regular people, and how characters drew strength from their faith in it.
Good point. I do wonder though, if any of those guys at the end had any faith in the Force when Vader came in and used is as a blender on them.
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:57 PM   #22
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Saw it yesterday and quite liked it. Still not sure where is rests in comparison, but I'll definitely see it again.

When people talk about jarring things for them, I think the one that got me was Vader throwing out that pun. I dunno, that one has just stuck with me for some reason. Never figured Vader to be a pun guy, has he made some before?
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Old 12-19-2016, 01:29 PM   #23
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Saw it yesterday and quite liked it. Still not sure where is rests in comparison, but I'll definitely see it again.

When people talk about jarring things for them, I think the one that got me was Vader throwing out that pun. I dunno, that one has just stuck with me for some reason. Never figured Vader to be a pun guy, has he made some before?
I started cracking up for all the wrong reasons. I just looked at my friend next to me like, "WHAT?!?"
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Old 12-19-2016, 01:31 PM   #24
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And none of that is reflected in the rest of the write-up. It seemed pretty positive overall...and then you closed things out by saying it was bad.

At the end of the day, it's your opinion. Whatever. It just seemed pretty off and jarring from the standpoint of a review.
I'm also not sure why people can't have different thoughts about something as far as it being unanimous. I tend to focus on the positive in things and life. That's why I focused on the positive aspects of the film. If it were completely awful, I wouldn't write a thing. But I think that people give this a pass on its shortcomings because it's a Star Wars film.

I don't know how to lay it out for you further. I should've just started a discussion and left it at that.
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Old 12-19-2016, 01:34 PM   #25
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Personally I thought it was easily the best Star Wars movie in the last thirty five years, and might even be better than Empire (I need to watch it again before I make a final decision). I loved nearly all of the characters, and the ending was just incredible. It made a seamless transition to episode IV, and it took balls to kill everyone at the end.
Loved it.
I thought the deaths were fantastic. If I have one pet peeve in movies, it's the "heroic death". I know I'm apparently in the minority on this, because if characters don't get a "heroic death", fans cry bloody murder and threaten to burn creators houses down. But 99.9% of people who die, even in war, don't die heroically. It happens in a blink of an eye and most people are probably confused when it happens. They were just about to do something and had plans for what they were going to do after that.

I love how many deaths in Rogue One aren't people sacrificing themselves for the greater good or choosing how they die. Bohde, specifically.
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Old 12-19-2016, 01:36 PM   #26
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Saw it yesterday and quite liked it. Still not sure where is rests in comparison, but I'll definitely see it again.

When people talk about jarring things for them, I think the one that got me was Vader throwing out that pun. I dunno, that one has just stuck with me for some reason. Never figured Vader to be a pun guy, has he made some before?
I bet he was thinking 'em up while chilling in the bacta tank.
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Old 12-19-2016, 01:43 PM   #27
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I'm also not sure why people can't have different thoughts about something as far as it being unanimous. I tend to focus on the positive in things and life. That's why I focused on the positive aspects of the film. If it were completely awful, I wouldn't write a thing. But I think that people give this a pass on its shortcomings because it's a Star Wars film.

I don't know how to lay it out for you further. I should've just started a discussion and left it at that.
I'm looking at it simply from a structural standpoint right now; it doesn't really matter whether you liked the film or not. Ultimately, I'm trying to help improve the writing in my own way.

It's perfectly fine to have a blend of thoughts and feelings about a movie, which is something you expressed throughout the write-up; certain aspects worked for you, while others didn't What struck me was - after a relatively positive-sounding review - you turned around and flat-out said it was a bad movie.

It was confusing, so I wanted to find out a little more.
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Old 12-19-2016, 01:58 PM   #28
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I'm looking at it simply from a structural standpoint right now; it doesn't really matter whether you liked the film or not. Ultimately, I'm trying to help improve the writing in my own way.

It's perfectly fine to have a blend of thoughts and feelings about a movie, which is something you expressed throughout the write-up; certain aspects worked for you, while others didn't What struck me was - after a relatively positive-sounding review - you turned around and flat-out said it was a bad movie.

It was confusing, so I wanted to find out a little more.
I gotcha. 10characters
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Old 12-19-2016, 02:47 PM   #29
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I don't know how to lay it out for you further. I should've just started a discussion and left it at that.
You jumped into a defensive stance because you're afraid of having an opinion that is against the norm. If you weren't afraid, you would have realized he just wanted more substance from your write-up.

You can say a bunch of words but ultimately they don't mean anything if you don't know why you are saying them.
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Old 12-19-2016, 03:13 PM   #30
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I thought the deaths were fantastic. If I have one pet peeve in movies, it's the "heroic death". I know I'm apparently in the minority on this, because if characters don't get a "heroic death", fans cry bloody murder and threaten to burn creators houses down. But 99.9% of people who die, even in war, don't die heroically. It happens in a blink of an eye and most people are probably confused when it happens. They were just about to do something and had plans for what they were going to do after that.

I love how many deaths in Rogue One aren't people sacrificing themselves for the greater good or choosing how they die. Bohde, specifically.
I think heroic deaths are just much easier for an audience to watch though. It's not just about being satisfied, it's about being okay with watching someone who is ready to go to their death. But when you see someone who isn't ready and is afraid to die, I think it really hits us harder because it's a fear we all have. Sometimes it can be downright disturbing.
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Old 12-19-2016, 03:38 PM   #31
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I think heroic deaths are just much easier for an audience to watch though. It's not just about being satisfied, it's about being okay with watching someone who is ready to go to their death. But when you see someone who isn't ready and is afraid to die, I think it really hits us harder because it's a fear we all have. Sometimes it can be downright disturbing.
You're definitely right about that, and that brings up a really fascinating point. Many people complain about the "flat" characters in Rogue One, but I wonder if Disney intentionally kept some emotional separation from the characters and the audience because they knew that people would be less accepting of an ending where everyone dies if they truly cared about the characters?
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Old 12-19-2016, 03:40 PM   #32
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Good point. I do wonder though, if any of those guys at the end had any faith in the Force when Vader came in and used is as a blender on them.
hah.. now this really reminds me of Christianity in its current state(well pretty much has always been).. same religion, but practiced in different methods, which leads to dead bodies on the floor...

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I think heroic deaths are just much easier for an audience to watch though. It's not just about being satisfied, it's about being okay with watching someone who is ready to go to their death. But when you see someone who isn't ready and is afraid to die, I think it really hits us harder because it's a fear we all have. Sometimes it can be downright disturbing.
OH yeah totally.. Makes me think of Private Mellish getting slowly knifed in Saving Private Ryan. Bad way to die(even though he was a hero) and it was bad to watch. Still I will remember him more than any character in Rogue One. Well except for K-2SO.
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Old 12-19-2016, 03:45 PM   #33
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I thought Evil's months of bad spin while the movie was being made was a good clue as to how he would like it, LOL.
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Old 12-19-2016, 05:09 PM   #34
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I personally felt like it was a bad movie

And just when I was thinking about playing some Titan Fall 2 with you...
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Old 12-19-2016, 05:37 PM   #35
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It wasn't absolutely amazing, but it was the first legit good Star War film since the OT IMO.
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Old 12-19-2016, 05:49 PM   #36
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I can't hardly disagree with your meta point more. It was a great movie in part because it finally showed a world of Star Wars beyond the Jedi and Sith antics. To you this is slapping the IP an otherwise passable sci-fi film to give it a box office turbo-boost while to me this is showing a broader scope of the universe.

In the EU they had a book called Truce at Bakura and one of the few things it did was try to go beyond the whole Skywalker/Solo Jedi/Sith Alliance/Empire dichotomy that drives just about the entirety of the rest of the fiction.

In this book a new species was introduced which forced the Alliance and Empire to work directly together and this was acid to many fans. The book wasn't perfect by any means but this particular expansion of the fiction was seen as heretical; as if someone had made the Federation and Klingon's buddies.

When someone tries to take Star Wars from it's milk and butter of those six pillars a lot of people rebel against the change. It seems like this is something you are rebelling against (c wut I did thar?).

Maybe there are enough stories to grow with the characters they have now, but unlike most I don't need to be reminded that Vader is a bad mutherfucker for the 1,000th time. Nor do I need to be reminded that the Empire is generally "bad" and the alliance is generally "good" (there were always shades of grey for any critical thinker). Nor do I need more character growth for Luke, Leia, Chewie, 3PO, R2, or anyone else who has appeared in more than two movies/comics/books already (deprecated or not).

There's lots of battles in a war and yes, while Normandy Beach gets a lion's share of the film that doesn't mean there isn't room to tell about Hacksaw Ridge.

Don't get me wrong, I liked the Vader porn (though I think it would have been better if not ALL the rebels were dribbling babies all but waiting for the smack down). However I think it might have played better as a classy sex scene instead where use of the proper lighting, good cinematography, and fading to black at the right time would have let people's imagination do so much more than all the CGI and fighting choreography in the world.

EDIT: I thought they did a great job with Leia and Tarkin CGI. Tarkin looked pretty good though they clearly still need to get out of uncanny valley they've certainly come a long way since Tron: Legacy.

That I don't remember a single character name is OK, I don't remember hardly any of the character names from Saving Private Ryan either but it doesn't change how I feel about the characters. I'm not putting this movie nearly in the same realm as that film. This is still closer to mindless fun but just as a point to keep in mind.
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Old 12-19-2016, 07:12 PM   #37
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I thought Evil's months of bad spin while the movie was being made was a good clue as to how he would like it, LOL.
Except that I said I liked it.
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Old 12-19-2016, 07:33 PM   #38
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Someone in this thread mentioned lack of lightsabers in Rogue One. There is a lack of lightsabers because of Order 99. They were killed and Vader is hunting the remaining ones. Remember, Obi is hiding.
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Old 12-19-2016, 07:37 PM   #39
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Vallor's Review.

From the moment the movie starts you know Rogue One isn't a real Star Wars Movie.

The opening crawl is missing. The familiar opening of the ship over the planet rise is gone. The echos of John Williams unforgettable themes are barely recognizable as they are played as an underpin of some other score.

The first 10 minutes are sort of uncomfortable as any SW vet tries to get their bearings but fortunately the story gives them a few pieces to grab on to. The farm we see the imperial shuttle heading to looks a lot like what we can remember from "A New Hope". The people are wearing similar clothes. So definitely Star Wars.

Mads Mikkelsen's Galen Erso and his family show up and it's we're off to the very slow races as it takes 30 minutes for setup to happen and really get into gear.

Disney's Rogue One crew took a few seconds of seemingly throw away information from Episode 4 and build a whole movie around the story of how the Death Star plans made it into the hands of Princess Leia, R2 and kicked off the beginning of the end of the Empire.

Set somewhat awkwardly between episode 3 and 4 in a universe where the lore is still settling after the Disney acquisition has kept a number of people guessing on who would and would not show up. What Easter eggs would be found to confirm any other pieces of story or lore that would be used as a launching pad for other stories? Would this establish a new franchise worth of characters and if so how do we explain such pivotal figures being missing in Episodes 4, 5, 6, and now 7?

I was happy to see the story was well told and fills an important plot hole that has gone exposed for 40 years. It also addressed the problems above through the simple device of killing all the important characters involved who don't show up in later movies.

This lack of character attachment is perhaps the most common criticism and maybe the most valid. To me it is maybe one of the best and most tragic failings for both the viewer and Disney. It is best because the characters become disposable to telling the story. As a standalone story there are no rules for "this character has to survive because of x, y, z". It gives the director, writer, and actors a chance to take it to the wall with the situations and the small amount of growth their characters are able to show in the film.

It's tragic for the viewer because they will never get to know these people better. There's very little to get invested in, even if there was a Rogue "Zero" which delved into the backstory of these characters it would be very limited in scope. A book, a one-off movie. There aren't any hooks really to hang more off of in this case.

It also means poor Disney doesn't get their typical long term "Milk the Customer" prospect on this particular movie. They invested into a Jyn and others who they can't add to new media or toys for ever and ever. Though we can still expect the standard the Extended Collectors 3D Ultimate Uncut Edition, The Extended Collectors 3D Ultimate Uncut DIRECTORS Edition, the Extended Collectors 3D/4K Ultimate Uncut Directors Closed Vault Edition.

The story starts slow with a few bounce the anvil off the head dumb moves to propel the story along. Fortunately there is only two big facepalms before we are introduced to the star of the show in K2. From then on out there facepalms become no more troublesome than most other blockbuster movies.

For those that haven't heard the story is about a girl who's father was an engineer for the Death Star. He's the one that set it up so the reactor would blow thanks to that one uncovered port Luke shot his load into at the end of Episode 4. He talks an imperial shuttle pilot into taking a message to a friend of his, the friend who had taken care of his daughter Jyn, after the Empire had forced him to work for them 15 years earlier.

This friend Saw Garrera is a very militant rebel who doesn't play well with the alliance, however he no longer has Jyn having abandoned her a long time ago. It turns out Jyn has been tossed in prison under an assumed name. The Alliance busts her out and promises her freedom in exchange for introductions to Saw Gerrera and access to her father or her father's message.

Jyn agrees and travels with Cassian, an Alliance intelligence operative who charged to commit MURDER MOST FOUL and K2 to a desert moon. Apparently there are a lot of desert worlds and moons far, far away. Through many hijynks Jyn ends up meeting Saw and hearing the message warning about the Death Star and the possible vulnerablity. Along the way the rest of the core party emerges.

A blind monk who used to be a guard of the local Jedi Temple and exhibits something pretty close to being force sensitivity himself; his burly but heart-of-gold-never-let-my-friend-down trooper who says he doesn't believe in the force any more but you know he does; the imperial pilot who smuggled daddies message out to begin with and may be Jyn's only hope of a reunion.

In the processes Jyn finds out where her father is and has a chance to see the power of smally powered Death Star. Chasing these threads eventually leads to the showdown where the plans are uploaded to the Alliance fleet and the last scene where Leia escapes in her corvette which dovetails into the first scene of Episode 4.

The climatic space and ground combat scenes are epic in a scale never seen before in a Star Wars film ever. The ground combat scenes on the planets are juicier and gritter than anything played on Hoth or Endor despite the fewer number of forces and smaller amounts of armor.

The space combat is less about the individual fighters and shows more of the naval combat people have hoped to see since Episode 6. It's been a long time since we've gotten to see Alliance capital ships blast it out (and get blasted) like this and the special effects are up to the spectacle. One of the bigger turns in the space battle still feels a little artificial with deployment the Hammerhead. Like it came out of nowhere, but the resolution is satisfying enough to overlook it.

I think people continually need to be reminded just how... big the forces of the Empire are and when the Shield Base is getting attacked and they are sending wing after wing (after wing) of TIEs against the Alliance this is reinforced and it's glorious to see how fucked the Rebellion is at that moment.

At the end when Vader says not to destroy the crippled capital ships and not to kill the remaining crew you know what's going down. I felt sorry for those people.

Of course the movie is nothing without it's villains. Or in this case it's villain as no others are really represented. Director Orson Krennic is a ladder climber being kept firmly in his place by his boss, a only slightly creepy Governor (soon to be Grand Moff) Tarkin. At least that's what the movie wants you to believe. The real evil here is corporatism type of government the Empire represents. In this case Director Krennic is the middle manager willing to do anything to get ahead and the costs are on such a scale they begin to blur.

The Alliance is where the individual is allowed to have power. It is shown in several ways when the council decides not to attack to get the plans and right away again when the Rogue One takes things into their own hands (which is "creativity" not shown anywhere on the Imperial side). The Empire is the great monolith where everything is allowed to lose it's identity, for good or ill. If it takes the death of 5 billion faceless beings to keep 5 trillion in line, that is worth it. The ends justify the means. But Director Krennic, he just wanted to do his job, get credit for doing it well, and then get the accolades that were due to him.

When it looked like things were going south he needed to cover his ass, by any means necessary. By using every resource at his command to kill anyone and everything that got in his way of what should have been his best Christmas bonus ever.

Which is exactly what Vader and Governor Tarkin did too when they used the Death Star to destroy the archives. Just covering their ass. That's what management does in the biggest corporations and governments.

Story: A : This is a well executed and believable story in the Star Wars universe and the Empire we see the Emperor assembling. Not only that Director Krennic would get to where he was, but Governor Tarkin would come and try to take his success away. Just like real life where many a higher manager or politician gets ahead by taking credit for an underling's work. Then we have "Mr. Wolf" in the form of Vader would be called in to clean up the mess when Tarkin goes back up the chain and stays "That daft Director Krennic has made a right show of this. We need to call in the big guns.".

Visuals: A : Always plenty to go around and catch your eye. Lots of variety in locations, aliens, ships,... all the things you like about Star Wars.

CGI Tarkin and Leia look pretty good but still in Uncanny Valley.

Audio: C : Misses a few beats. While the pew pew is there and sounds right and the acting was right one there isn't enough John Williams splashed in with Michael Giacchino to make the music Star Wars-y enough. I really like some of the work Giacchino has done with Star Trek but it did fall flat here. This is the first time someone other than John Williams has handled the score to a Star Wars film and the score was the worse for it.

I'm happy to hear John Williams is returning for EP8.

Cast: B : Pretty good all told. I found most of them "believable" as far as their archtype went. The acting was good especially when you consider each person was basically given a roller to paint with instead of a fine brush. The criticism of the poor characters is a result of too many potentially interesting characters stuffed into a single movie. I wanted to know more about the monk. It would have been interesting to see more about how Casssin was brought to the Alliance. Why didn't Saw and the Alliance see eye to eye? It feels redundant to say but Alan Tudyk is the breakout here, though the writer of his lines should be soaking up the praise.

We aren't going to see any best actor performances here however no one should be ashamed to put Rogue One on their resume (unlike SOME from Ep 1, 2, 3).

Overall: A : Anyway if you want THE Star Wars story you'll want Ep. 7, 8, 9. Rogue One is just "a" Star Wars story. With a little "a". Looking to this movie for "THE" Star Wars story here will end up being a disappointment. The real accomplishment IMO is getting people out of the Star Wars rut which relies on the familiar.

If you're looking for a great movie that expands on the Star Wars lore, gives more insight into the Galaxy as a whole, and has some of the best space and ground fights of the series this may be the most exciting movie and the most solid since Empire Strikes Back.

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Old 12-19-2016, 07:59 PM   #40
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Someone in this thread mentioned lack of lightsabers in Rogue One. There is a lack of lightsabers because of Order 99. They were killed and Vader is hunting the remaining ones. Remember, Obi is hiding.
It's Order 66, but you're still right; there shouldn't be many significant Force users by this point, because Vader had all but completed the Jedi Purge by the time we get to this part of the story.
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