Evil Avatar  



Go Back   Evil Avatar > Geek Love > Totally Off Topic

» Sponsored Links


» Recent Threads
Bad News: Fake News Game
Last post by BillyWilliamton
Today 07:42 PM
11 Replies, 508 Views
LEGO Movie Director In...
Last post by Exodus
Today 07:04 PM
5 Replies, 516 Views
Lost in Space...
Last post by DingBat
Today 06:45 PM
4 Replies, 351 Views
Black Panther is King of...
Last post by Terran
Today 05:41 PM
32 Replies, 1,507 Views
Liberals gone wild
Last post by VenomUSMC
Today 04:51 PM
1,064 Replies, 134,155 Views
There's a Tomb Raider...
Last post by Blog
Today 04:33 PM
10 Replies, 974 Views
Burnout Paradise...
Last post by PatrickRes9
Today 03:10 PM
21 Replies, 739 Views
Warhammer 40,000:...
Last post by Blog
Today 03:09 PM
3 Replies, 427 Views
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-20-2018, 09:12 PM   #941
blackzc
Evil Dead
 
blackzc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: I am boot, hear me win!
Posts: 6,461
Specrtal, why do you hate progress?
__________________
Nintendo: A guiding light in a sea of video game degeneracy
blackzc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2018, 10:37 PM   #942
SpectralThundr
Evil Dead
 
SpectralThundr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Bawwston
Posts: 6,698
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackzc View Post
Specrtal, why do you hate progress?
Lol I know right? How dare I not hop on board the "turn the US into a third world shithole train" like Phoenix and Whimple?
SpectralThundr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2018, 06:19 AM   #943
Phoenix1985
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by vallor View Post
Two things.

1) When he said the President was responsible for the shutdown he was totally correct when speaking about most previous Presidents but especially Obama.

President Obama WAS the democrats and they moved in lockstep with him. Not only was he fully informed and consulted with every piece of legislation strategy he was also a very activist legislator President in the form of Executive Orders. Maybe some Presidents wrote more EOs than Obama but few wrote more far-reaching EOs than he did.

President Trump doesn't have the luxury of enforced party unity. In fact just about everyone hates him inside and outside his party. Though it seems there have been some strides to get there I doubt it'll every be as unanimous as the democratic single front we saw with Clinton and especially Obama.

2) Trump has gone far out of his way to try and pass things that should be done by the legislative body back down to the legislative body. This is why he hasn't simply written his own EOs re: immigration or how to handle sanctuary cities or anything like that.

Not only would they result in a rash of lawsuits regardless of legality but things like these are up to CONGRESS to legislate.

The American people, a vast majority according to CNN - aka Pradva for Progressive U.S. Politics, just want the spending bill passed and don't care if it has DACA provisions or not. They want to avoid the government shutdown.

President Trump has rightly sent these decisions back to Congress. Unlike President Obama he knows it isn't the President's job to legislate. And especially not to legislate via a likely unconstitutional pseudo-citizenship granting EO with stipulations most of those impacted didn't even give lip service to complying with.

The people DEMANDING DACA and immigration rights be part of the bill are the democrats. If people stop trying to complicate the spending bill with pork and pet funding it would be a lot easier to pass and people would be able to go to the museum this weekend.
1: So he's only saying the President is responsible when it comes to making sure a lockdown doesn't happen when it doesn't make him look bad? There had been shutdowns in the past before Clinton or Obama after all. Some as parts of direct presidential action/vetoes.

2: What? Like, just a google search can point you to where he has done executive orders on immigration and sanctuary cities. He's doing executive orders at a faster pace than what we've seen for decades, especially versus Obama who did less orders than has been recorded for the period of time he was in office than has been seen since the 1800s. I'm not even the biggest fan of the guy but the comparison you're making is not in the least connected to reality. What's up with you lately vallor? Where are you getting these talking points?

Edit: And just to make sure there aren't any misinterpretations here, the scope of Trump's EOs are comparable in scale to Obamas in my opinion, especially since a lot of them deal with repealing stuff Obama did or attempted to push. But the main point I'm making is that if Trump really cared about what you say he cares about he wouldn't be doing EOs at the pace he's doing them. They're practically his only real tool since he can't handle the other solutions Presidents tend to use.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintBlitzkrieg View Post
Also, Telltale signed with xbox, with fear that if they released Jurassic Park on the PS3, the dinosaurs would get loose.
Phoenix1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2018, 06:39 AM   #944
Terran
Evil Dead
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix1985 View Post
1: So he's only saying the President is responsible when it comes to making sure a lockdown doesn't happen when it doesn't make him look bad?
The president was prepared to sign a bill to keep the government open.
House Republicans passed such legislation.
Senate Republicans needed Democrat support to do so and didn't receive enough (only five...needed to get to 60).

The public blames Democrats more than the president.
The public said DACA was not worth shutting down the government.
The NYT said 'Senate Dems block' the bill keeping the government open.
Current DACA extensions end on March 5. Last I checked it's January. There's no reason to shut down the gov't over DACA, unless you hate Americans and love illegals.

The only people who don't know who is responsible here are liberal ideologues like yourself.


Quote:
He's doing executive orders at a faster pace than what we've seen for decades
Trump's executive orders are UNDOING the UNCONSTITUTIONAL orders of the last administration.

Quote:
the scope of Trump's EOs are comparable in scale to Obamas in my opinion
You're an idiot. When the last guy shits up the room, you don't get to cry that the current guy is moving just as much shit when he's moving THE SHIT FROM THE LAST GUY.

Trump's EOs are focused on undoing illegal, unaccountable, unconstitutional legislating from the Obama White House.

I find it absolutely hilarious that the asshole in chief who mic-dropped mockery toward Trump is most likely directly responsible for persuading him to run and then win, absolutely destroying his legacy in the process. Much of what Obama did depended upon executive whims...orders...because "I won" as he said and he refused to work with Republicans when he had his 60 Senate votes, thereby poisoning that relationship for eight full years.

Obama's legacy is in the sewer. Next stop it can go to hell.
__________________
Why would Republicans pass such a terrible tax law? lol...

Giving people more of their own money...WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS? :D

Last edited by Terran; 01-21-2018 at 06:53 AM..
Terran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2018, 02:58 PM   #945
blackzc
Evil Dead
 
blackzc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: I am boot, hear me win!
Posts: 6,461
Now EO's are bad. Bwa--ha--ha.

Obamas EO's were an attempt to unseat white Christians from power. Him and and his coalition of the ascendant (militant blacks, gays, illegals, legals, the worthless gibs crowd) saw their chance, and since undoing 400 years of establishment take time and 8 years goes by quick, him and his team of commies had to act fast, which showed their hand.

Let's not forget that many of the EO's flew in the face of the law, this was the final push. As Terran said, Trump is undoing them.

The democrat party will, at some point have to go back to fighting for the working class if they ever want to win an election again.
__________________
Nintendo: A guiding light in a sea of video game degeneracy
blackzc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2018, 03:40 PM   #946
vallor
Michael Bay Fanboi
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 6,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix1985 View Post
1: So he's only saying the President is responsible when it comes to making sure a lockdown doesn't happen when it doesn't make him look bad? There had been shutdowns in the past before Clinton or Obama after all. Some as parts of direct presidential action/vetoes.
Previous shutdowns, again to pick on President Obama because it's when I started really paying attention. President Obama was so charismatic and he really did have the cult of America with him every step of the way. Including me until I was red-pilled.
There was NO budging during President Obama's tenure. The Republicans hardly ever won concessions and always got battered for being obstructionist.

But it it meant there was no negotiation and if anyone wanted to try it was basically with Obama. Pelosi and Reid were figureheads with Obama pulling the strings. The mandate came from the top and there may have been no separation between Legislative and Executive branches.

This is why I suggest things are different with Trump. There is clearly a separation between the two branches and Trump is going out of his way to make it clear that Congress has to clean up Congress's problems.

Unlike other Presidents Trump is going to do as little legislation from the office as possible. And the times he has tried (like the travel ban) have been castastophies despite their clear legality.

As for the pace of his EOs what he is doing is far different than what other presidents have done, particularly again in Obama, in actually trying to craft legislation via EOs.

Speaking of my red-pilling. I bet you can see it happen pretty organically if you parse through the threads on the ToT forum here for the last 3 or 4 years. The An-cap thread, the bitcoin threads, the healthcare threads... I wonder if I shouldn't parse through and compile them into a master blog. Call it something like "How a Socialist became a (mostly) Constitutionalist Conservative by Arguing with People on the Internet".
vallor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 04:57 AM   #947
Phoenix1985
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,200
Quote:
Originally Posted by vallor View Post
Previous shutdowns, again to pick on President Obama because it's when I started really paying attention. President Obama was so charismatic and he really did have the cult of America with him every step of the way. Including me until I was red-pilled.
There was NO budging during President Obama's tenure. The Republicans hardly ever won concessions and always got battered for being obstructionist.

But it it meant there was no negotiation and if anyone wanted to try it was basically with Obama. Pelosi and Reid were figureheads with Obama pulling the strings. The mandate came from the top and there may have been no separation between Legislative and Executive branches.

This is why I suggest things are different with Trump. There is clearly a separation between the two branches and Trump is going out of his way to make it clear that Congress has to clean up Congress's problems.

Unlike other Presidents Trump is going to do as little legislation from the office as possible. And the times he has tried (like the travel ban) have been castastophies despite their clear legality.

As for the pace of his EOs what he is doing is far different than what other presidents have done, particularly again in Obama, in actually trying to craft legislation via EOs.

Speaking of my red-pilling. I bet you can see it happen pretty organically if you parse through the threads on the ToT forum here for the last 3 or 4 years. The An-cap thread, the bitcoin threads, the healthcare threads... I wonder if I shouldn't parse through and compile them into a master blog. Call it something like "How a Socialist became a (mostly) Constitutionalist Conservative by Arguing with People on the Internet".
I'd certainly love to read it, if not in blog form. Some sort of e-book or something conductive to long-term reading would be neat. On that note, thank you for keeping a proper pace and taking the time to have a proper dialogue, really appreciate it.

I don't agree with the statement of a cult of america, entirely anyway. He was certainly charismatic and a good statesman, but there was all the normal grumbling that comes along after that many years in office. He had his scandals after all (and a few fabricated ones like the color of his tie, etc), but at the end of the day he ended up more or less an average President. Bookended by George W Bush and Trump though, I can see why he would come off as one of the most influential Presidents of all time.

The main issue I would have with your statement is in the effort of applying intent to Trump's actions (and the fact it seems the branches are more muddled than ever, but that's an entirely different discussion). I don't think knowing his intent is entirely possible since he can't really be trusted to personally tell the truth about what his intent is. And that's not even an insult, not really.

The fact that he's lied constantly about so many things and mixed it up with nuggets of truth, not because he's some master statesman but because he doesn't seem to plan ahead, means the reason behind his doing what he's doing can be anything and it seems more like post hoc reasoning to say he did it to preserve the Republic's institutions, especially given how often he's abused or outright broken rules for Presidential conduct (the latest example being to use the Government Shutdown recorded messages to propagandize).

In the case of DACA, his lying about a deal he was going to make with the Democrats earlier most likely lead to their efforts here, as they correctly assumed he wouldn't be willing to make a deal if they presented it, at least twice now.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintBlitzkrieg View Post
Also, Telltale signed with xbox, with fear that if they released Jurassic Park on the PS3, the dinosaurs would get loose.
Phoenix1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 11:40 AM   #948
Whimbrel
Subhuman
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,700
This thread moves too quickly.

We were talking about the tax plan, voter fraud- now there is a bunch of new stuff in people's minds.

One of my goals in starting this thread was to address the blind tribalism of partisanship which I see as a larger problem than any one administration or president. Towards this end, I realized that for the most part, neither side believes anything the other side says. One of the sources of this credibility gap seems to me to come from the tribal partisanship in the first place in which there is no consistent standard for conduct or communication. People will fault Trump for things they justified from Obama, etc. Everything smacks of double standards and hypocrisy.

So, my thinking was that it would be refreshing if people took the time to point out when something is wrong on principle, even if it comes from their own side. On most policy issues and social issues, I definitely lean left. But that doesn't mean I have surrendered my judgment in favor of bias or that I no longer think objectivity is critical. I still believe that reasonable people can and should disagree.

So, having said that, here are a few things that the left is fucking up.

1. 2018 mid terms- far too much emphasis on the left has been on getting the upper hand or winning back seats so that they can lash out at Trump. That is idiotic. It does nothing for the American people and is a slap in the face to Trump supporters and simply adds fuel to the fire that his base believe the left are crazy, useless people and that the left thinks that they are essentially an invalid constituency.

2. Outrage- Outrage is an emotional response, not a policy position. If a single person is going to vote for the left in the next election who did not vote democratic in the last election, I sure hope it is because of a strong and practical progressive economic message and not just because of Trump.

3. Trump- The single most significant take away from the 2016 election for the left was that the campaigns let the media carry the ball and the ball was simply anti Trump. So, what did they learn from this going into the first year of the Trump administration? Seemingly nothing. This is the greatest political example of repeating a mistake that I have seen in my lifetime. Sure, Trump is a repugnant pile of shit, but so what? He is one person. The left needs to appeal to 200 million Americans with a message of inclusion, and some kind of economic opportunity. The greatest blessing we have ever gotten on the left is that Trump is more or less incompetent. If he were actually getting a ton of shit done it would be much, much worse.

4. Bernie- Maybe he is great, but by fracturing the party, democratic incumbents even at the state level are having to divert resources against possible challenges from within the party to punish those perceived to support Hillary. This is no joke and no exaggeration. I was doing party campaign work this past weekend and it is real. It is fucked up, but it is real. Bernie Sanders is a curse for the left. He can do everything except unify the party, which is the one thing it needs. Seems almost Shakespearean.

5. Fake news. People on the left act like fake news is some kind of Trump joke. That is not only wrong, but it is a huge mistake. Here are three real examples of Fake News

a. On Sunday morning (yesterday) there were dozens of news stories- headlines, concerning the Saturday Night Live episodes commenting on Trump. Not in the TV or media section, but front page, as if a comedy show criticizing a political event is front page news? WTF? These same papers put their own editorial cartoons with the same editorial message somewhere else, somehow indicating that even by their own standard, political satire is not news.
b. Almost all major news websites feature advertisements that are designed to look like actual news stories. The ads are literally fake news pieces being run in publications that mock the President for using the term "fake news". They are being paid by fake news while claiming fake news is imaginary. WTF!!!! I know, I know that these ads are not really the point of the fake news issue, but it goes to my larger point about media bias and paid messaging.
c. We now know that a lot of news content people access on social media is fake and manipulated to misinform or foment emotional reactions but is presented as being from some kind of legitimate journalism source.

5. Media Bias. Earlier this year the Washington Post added "Democracy Dies in Darkness" under its name. Hmm. I guess the idea was that Trump is the devil of darkness and he lies all the time, but the Washington Post is going to be the light of truth that protects democracy. The only problem with that is that "Journalism Dies With Bias," which they conveniently forgot to write. Yes, we all have something to lose when we can no longer trust our sources of information to be objective. The left can't have it both ways in complaining about the absurd bias of Fox news while cheering on WaPo and MSNBC or CNN. I don't see a real way out of this. It is one thing to lose trust, but to celebrate it seems like lunacy.
Whimbrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 02:47 PM   #949
SpectralThundr
Evil Dead
 
SpectralThundr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Bawwston
Posts: 6,698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
This thread moves too quickly.

We were talking about the tax plan, voter fraud- now there is a bunch of new stuff in people's minds.

One of my goals in starting this thread was to address the blind tribalism of partisanship which I see as a larger problem than any one administration or president. Towards this end, I realized that for the most part, neither side believes anything the other side says. One of the sources of this credibility gap seems to me to come from the tribal partisanship in the first place in which there is no consistent standard for conduct or communication. People will fault Trump for things they justified from Obama, etc. Everything smacks of double standards and hypocrisy.

So, my thinking was that it would be refreshing if people took the time to point out when something is wrong on principle, even if it comes from their own side. On most policy issues and social issues, I definitely lean left. But that doesn't mean I have surrendered my judgment in favor of bias or that I no longer think objectivity is critical. I still believe that reasonable people can and should disagree.

So, having said that, here are a few things that the left is fucking up.

1. 2018 mid terms- far too much emphasis on the left has been on getting the upper hand or winning back seats so that they can lash out at Trump. That is idiotic. It does nothing for the American people and is a slap in the face to Trump supporters and simply adds fuel to the fire that his base believe the left are crazy, useless people and that the left thinks that they are essentially an invalid constituency.

2. Outrage- Outrage is an emotional response, not a policy position. If a single person is going to vote for the left in the next election who did not vote democratic in the last election, I sure hope it is because of a strong and practical progressive economic message and not just because of Trump.

3. Trump- The single most significant take away from the 2016 election for the left was that the campaigns let the media carry the ball and the ball was simply anti Trump. So, what did they learn from this going into the first year of the Trump administration? Seemingly nothing. This is the greatest political example of repeating a mistake that I have seen in my lifetime. Sure, Trump is a repugnant pile of shit, but so what? He is one person. The left needs to appeal to 200 million Americans with a message of inclusion, and some kind of economic opportunity. The greatest blessing we have ever gotten on the left is that Trump is more or less incompetent. If he were actually getting a ton of shit done it would be much, much worse.

4. Bernie- Maybe he is great, but by fracturing the party, democratic incumbents even at the state level are having to divert resources against possible challenges from within the party to punish those perceived to support Hillary. This is no joke and no exaggeration. I was doing party campaign work this past weekend and it is real. It is fucked up, but it is real. Bernie Sanders is a curse for the left. He can do everything except unify the party, which is the one thing it needs. Seems almost Shakespearean.

5. Fake news. People on the left act like fake news is some kind of Trump joke. That is not only wrong, but it is a huge mistake. Here are three real examples of Fake News

a. On Sunday morning (yesterday) there were dozens of news stories- headlines, concerning the Saturday Night Live episodes commenting on Trump. Not in the TV or media section, but front page, as if a comedy show criticizing a political event is front page news? WTF? These same papers put their own editorial cartoons with the same editorial message somewhere else, somehow indicating that even by their own standard, political satire is not news.
b. Almost all major news websites feature advertisements that are designed to look like actual news stories. The ads are literally fake news pieces being run in publications that mock the President for using the term "fake news". They are being paid by fake news while claiming fake news is imaginary. WTF!!!! I know, I know that these ads are not really the point of the fake news issue, but it goes to my larger point about media bias and paid messaging.
c. We now know that a lot of news content people access on social media is fake and manipulated to misinform or foment emotional reactions but is presented as being from some kind of legitimate journalism source.

5. Media Bias. Earlier this year the Washington Post added "Democracy Dies in Darkness" under its name. Hmm. I guess the idea was that Trump is the devil of darkness and he lies all the time, but the Washington Post is going to be the light of truth that protects democracy. The only problem with that is that "Journalism Dies With Bias," which they conveniently forgot to write. Yes, we all have something to lose when we can no longer trust our sources of information to be objective. The left can't have it both ways in complaining about the absurd bias of Fox news while cheering on WaPo and MSNBC or CNN. I don't see a real way out of this. It is one thing to lose trust, but to celebrate it seems like lunacy.
1. The left doesn't care about America or Americans, this much should be obvious as they've shut down the government because they don't want their free votes on the back of the taxpayers plan "DACA" to be ended, they don't want the end of sanctuary cities they don't want to enforce federal immigration law. They have no respect for the sovereignty of the United States. This should be the first red flag to liberals like yourself. Their first allegiance is to the globalists and Zionists behind the curtain.

2. There's no such thing as a strong practical "progressive" economic plan. We had 8 years of Obama doubling the national debt and we got nothing for it. For 8 years the bad economy was blamed on Bush, now that the stock market is soaring and employment is getting better he now wants to take credit for that after blaming Bush for the state of the economy for his entire presidency. You can't have it both ways.

3. Yes the media is anti Trump, which ties into your fake news point at the same time. And yet even with all the Fake News and Russia this Russia that, the thing is? The vast majority of Americans aren't buying it, as we learn that Obama and Clinton have completely politicized the FBI and CIA it's only going to get worse for the left as this is all coming to light.

It's sad when alternative news sources, that you seem so alarmed about are actually more honest than the supposedly trustworthy main stream media.

The left has lost Whimbrel, it's over, and if they lose more seats in the senate it's really over.

As for Bernie Sanders, the man never had a chance, he's had ties to communism his entire life, the vast majority of Americans are not communists as much as that may shock you.
SpectralThundr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 03:22 PM   #950
Terran
Evil Dead
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,770
Bernie and his wife may well end up in jail for bank fraud. They certainly deserve to; she drove a VT university into extinction while borrowing money based upon what sure as hell appears to be nothing but lies and fraud.

Funny how progressives are suddenly federalists. When it comes to marriage (an actual state level issue), the gay marriage agenda pushers had nothing but FUCK YOU for state's rights, but when it comes to FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAW suddenly they're channeling their inner KKK-federal-law-nullifying-racist-Democrat core.

The government is reopening because the Dems LOST. They tried to hold Americans hostage to their coddling of non-Americans but, unlike Obama inflicting pain on Americans during the last shutdown by pathetically throwing up fences and being a little bitch toward everyday folks, the Republicans kept shit running fairly smoothly and Americans in general didn't take too kindly to progressives pitching a budgetary fit for the sake of non-Americans.

November 2018 is looking up for Republicans because Americans have a clear choice: Keep more of your own money, with a tighter labor market, with the border under greater control, increasing your personal salary, or vote for higher taxes and more foreigners flooding the job market and your local schools on your dime.

BTW, liberals: You think progressives want a final 'solution' to legalize illegal immigrants and DACA individuals? HAHAHAHAHA. They had a supermajority for a year and did SHIT for you. That is a fact. They were too busy forcing poor healthy single people to buy insurance they didn't want or need, transferring money from the young, poor and healthy to the old and sick...because apparently we don't do enough of that already with Medicare and Social Security.
__________________
Why would Republicans pass such a terrible tax law? lol...

Giving people more of their own money...WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS? :D

Last edited by Terran; 01-22-2018 at 03:39 PM..
Terran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 03:52 PM   #951
Whimbrel
Subhuman
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terran View Post

Funny how progressives are suddenly federalists. When it comes to marriage (an actual state level issue), the gay marriage agenda pushers had nothing but FUCK YOU for state's rights, but when it comes to FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAW suddenly they're channeling their inner KKK-federal-law-nullifying-racist-Democrat core.
So, let's say for the sake of argument that you are 100% correct that Democrats flip flopped on the issue of state's rights and that your characterization of the immigration issue is correct. Were you equally offended whenever the GOP took an inconsistent stance on anything? Did you take the time to write it up and point out the hypocrisy of maintaining a double standard for political reasons? Or, perhaps you think it is ok when one side does something but bad if another side does it? Or, perhaps you think the GOP doesn't also take inconsistent stances on things regarding principles?

My prediction is that you behave exactly like so many you oppose in rationalizing what seems like a fault on your side but demonizing those who rationalize the exact same situation on their side. So, in this, you are exactly like what you despise, but you don't seem to see that.

Now, not for the sake of argument, you seem to be forgetting the issue of the constitution in your assessment of marriage equality. Regardless of the issue at hand, I am pretty sure state's rights are not supposed to deny individual freedoms granted by the constitution. At least, that's what the Supreme Court says. Having said that, you also mischaracterize the role of the current crisis in regards to immigration law. Even if you were to decide that illegal immigrants are a larger problem than they are, people have known for decades that federal law was inadequate to deal with the actual issue of illegal immigrants. The failure of the government to respond with a new law that actually addresses the problem creates a crisis. Nobody expects the current law to be enforced to deport 12 million people, so pretending that fantasy is reality is irrelevant to the actual circumstances you are discussing.
Whimbrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 03:59 PM   #952
Whimbrel
Subhuman
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,700
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpectralThundr View Post
1.

The left has lost Whimbrel, it's over, and if they lose more seats in the senate it's really over.
Umm. It's hard to figure out what to do with this comment. You write about human beings like it is a video game. Let's say that the left loses political influence for the next 8 years, minimum. What is it that you think is actually going to happen? Do liberals, progressives and democrats cease to exist as your classmates, teachers, neighbors, doctors, friends, etc? Do these millions of people stop voting, caring, give up their rights as citizens?

You might not realize that you seem to espouse extremist views. Maybe you are aware of that, or maybe you think you are joe average. Regardless, losing an election does not make the people give up, walk away, disappear, or suddenly change all of their principles. This isn't a civil war in which the right and left are supposed to defeat each other and force their ideology down the other side's throat for the rest of time. The left and right have differing views on some things about what is the right path for this country, but so far, nobody is suggesting some kind of extermination plan. So, a political loss doesn't really move the needle that much. Some would say the tighter the right clutches its grasp the more left systems will slip through its fingers and come back stronger.
Whimbrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 04:00 PM   #953
Phoenix1985
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,200
Well, the shutdown seems to be ending and somehow absolutely everyone seems unhappy about it. Democrats, Republicans and assorted Others I've spoken to all think this ended in a complete wash. For different reasons of course, but still.

Democrats are unhappy because the Dems that did the deal somehow think trusting McConnell to uphold anywhere close to what he's said or that he'll care when eventually caught in a lie is worth ending the shutdown over. Sure, this time CHIP can't be used as a, pardon the pun, bargaining chip or hostage, but it is just going to be something else next time and their opponents didn't care then, why would they care now?

Republicans are mad because they didn't have enough time to get on message (that could have resulted in better polling in contested states) and are especially mad at Trump for preemptively crapping over the resolution anyway by saying he won't sign bills associated with this (meaning they just lost a bargaining option for no reason since he could just reveal this right as the bill is done being voted on and it would have cost them nothing).

And everyone else thinks this will all repeat in another month once all the deals go belly-up and absolutely nothing the two parties do will fix that with the solutions on the table.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintBlitzkrieg View Post
Also, Telltale signed with xbox, with fear that if they released Jurassic Park on the PS3, the dinosaurs would get loose.
Phoenix1985 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 04:21 PM   #954
SpectralThundr
Evil Dead
 
SpectralThundr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Bawwston
Posts: 6,698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
Umm. It's hard to figure out what to do with this comment. You write about human beings like it is a video game. Let's say that the left loses political influence for the next 8 years, minimum. What is it that you think is actually going to happen? Do liberals, progressives and democrats cease to exist as your classmates, teachers, neighbors, doctors, friends, etc? Do these millions of people stop voting, caring, give up their rights as citizens?

You might not realize that you seem to espouse extremist views. Maybe you are aware of that, or maybe you think you are joe average. Regardless, losing an election does not make the people give up, walk away, disappear, or suddenly change all of their principles. This isn't a civil war in which the right and left are supposed to defeat each other and force their ideology down the other side's throat for the rest of time. The left and right have differing views on some things about what is the right path for this country, but so far, nobody is suggesting some kind of extermination plan. So, a political loss doesn't really move the needle that much. Some would say the tighter the right clutches its grasp the more left systems will slip through its fingers and come back stronger.
You really don't see the severity of what folks like Obama wanted to do, and still want to do. Expecting an efficient, budgeted government that follows federal law isn't an extremists view. And the reason I say it's over is progressives in DC have essentially come out as traitors to the US and the US Constitution, and people like you don't even raise an eyebrow, the amount of corruption the previous administration was involved in is simply fucking staggering. Things that would have made Nixon blush.

We have a chance to clean alot of it up on both sides of the political isle, but because you all hate Trump so much and obviously don't give two shits bout illegals pouring in what does that say about you as a person?
SpectralThundr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 04:21 PM   #955
Terran
Evil Dead
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
So, let's say for the sake of argument that you are 100% correct that Democrats flip flopped on the issue of state's rights
Yes, thank you. That is correct.

Quote:
My prediction is that you behave exactly like so many you oppose in rationalizing what seems like a fault on your side but demonizing those who rationalize the exact same situation on their side.
And my prediction is that you're losing, and you don't make policy in politics unless you win. So...keep grinding your teeth and bitching, lol.

Quote:
Now, not for the sake of argument, you seem to be forgetting the issue of the constitution in your assessment of marriage equality.
Marriage "equality" eh? Fuck you. You're not for marriage "equality" because there are plenty of cultures, even within our own borders, whose views of marriage you would surely declare illegal, unless you're a pedophile (such as Muslims declaring adult men marrying single-digit children as acceptable). I'm sure you're also against female genital mutilation as a precondition to marriage ('you can't marry a woman whose vagina is intact and ready to receive pleasure, because it might make her a slut' say African and Arab tribal and religious groups), unless you're a sick bastard.

So take your Orwellian propagandistic euphemisms to hell. You're not for 'equality' in marriage, you're for redefining it to suit your own circle of acceptability.

Quote:
Regardless of the issue at hand, I am pretty sure state's rights are not supposed to deny individual freedoms granted by the constitution.
I'm sure you're busily arguing that regarding concealed carry reciprocity and the Second Amendment.

Quote:
At least, that's what the Supreme Court says.
Remember that on 2A, an ACTUAL constitutional right that is ACTUALLY delineated in the constitution.

Quote:
Having said that, you also mischaracterize the role of the current crisis in regards to immigration law.
No I don't. Even progressive activists are howling that this is the #SchumerSellout and were howling under Obama that he didn't address their concerns when he had a supermajority.

Because progressives didn't want to. Because fuck you, that's why.

Quote:
Even if you were to decide that illegal immigrants are a larger problem than they are, people have known for decades that federal law was inadequate to deal with the actual issue of illegal immigrants.
No. Federal law is the ONLY mechanism for dealing with immigration. Because it's a delineated federal role in the Constitition.

Quote:
The failure of the government to respond with a new law that actually addresses the problem creates a crisis.
Not at all. Current law covers what to do quite nicely.

Quote:
Nobody expects the current law to be enforced to deport 12 million people, so pretending that fantasy is reality is irrelevant to the actual circumstances you are discussing.
You having fun waving that little red herring/strawman of your own creation around? It's entirely 'irrelevant to the actual circumstances' because the only one discussing that IS YOU.
__________________
Why would Republicans pass such a terrible tax law? lol...

Giving people more of their own money...WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS? :D
Terran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 07:32 PM   #956
blackzc
Evil Dead
 
blackzc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: I am boot, hear me win!
Posts: 6,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whimbrel View Post
Umm. It's hard to figure out what to do with this comment. You write about human beings like it is a video game. Let's say that the left loses political influence for the next 8 years, minimum. What is it that you think is actually going to happen? Do liberals, progressives and democrats cease to exist as your classmates, teachers, neighbors, doctors, friends, etc? Do these millions of people stop voting, caring, give up their rights as citizens?
This is a cultural swing. What will happen is being a liberal will be something to be ashamed of. Just as being a conservative has been demonized over the past 60 years.

The liberals will be subjugated as the conservatives were. 1000 year run would be sweet but 60-80 would be enough for me. Democracy works as long as there is balance. Once that's gone, its gone.

Whimbrel, why did your dude Obama call Wiemar a great example of progressive society? Any thoughts on that?

The literal reason Hitler came to power was Wiemar.

Also the 12 million wont be removed by force silly. Remove their incentives and they will leave. I know of 14 illegals that have moved back home from talking to the one illegal i know. They will be going back. We might even save Cali from a civil war.
__________________
Nintendo: A guiding light in a sea of video game degeneracy

Last edited by blackzc; 01-22-2018 at 08:52 PM..
blackzc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2018, 08:51 PM   #957
blackzc
Evil Dead
 
blackzc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: I am boot, hear me win!
Posts: 6,461
And just like that. DACA has no chance in hell. Schumer caved.

Pelosi is leaving the democrat party.

Good day today.
__________________
Nintendo: A guiding light in a sea of video game degeneracy
blackzc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2018, 07:05 AM   #958
Chief Smash
Evil Dead
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CT - USA
Posts: 3,202
Whimbrel, you keep mentioning how conservatives are being hypocritical in supporting the GOP for doing what we hate about the Democrats. But that's not really true and Trump is the proof. Getting him in there was a "F you!" to the GOP (not to conservatism but specifically to the GOP) almost as much as it was to the DNC.
Chief Smash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2018, 09:39 AM   #959
Terran
Evil Dead
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,770
Trump is a giant "F you" to the GOPe/RINOs. Meanwhile, Bernie represented a similar "F you" to establishment Dems but in response the Dems gave his supporters a giant "F you" as the fix was in, lol.

Winning: "They got a deal, to make a deal...maybe."

__________________
Why would Republicans pass such a terrible tax law? lol...

Giving people more of their own money...WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS? :D
Terran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2018, 09:43 AM   #960
brandonjclark
Subscriber
 
brandonjclark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,342
It's not progressive to hate white people.

Trump will win again in 2020 if the Dems don't cut out the cancerous alt-left.
__________________
~B$
Gamertag: legisilverback | Steam Nickname: brandonjclark
...playing Rebel Galaxy
brandonjclark is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:06 PM.