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Old 11-29-2017, 05:30 AM   #21
Fubl
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Publishers will never learn

Game variations killed in the last decade:
plastic Guitar games
toys to life
Skateboard games

game types that have reduced production since the early 00's:
flight sims/ space sims
mech sims
RTS
building games

This also might be the death kneel for the first person shooter. Just look at the numbers there use to be more companies making them but now unless its a big publisher theres nothing else, and people are getting tired of the ones released.
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Old 11-29-2017, 05:38 AM   #22
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I haven't played FIFA in a while ...

but somewhere I saw that you need to pay extra for the possibility to have big name players like Ronaldo... If I buy a fucking soccer game, I expect to have the players in it!!!!

Thank god I don't play Fifa anymore.
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Old 11-29-2017, 06:15 AM   #23
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What you propose is already in place. The only reason it's broken is because the people who got to pay to win before it got kaiboshed are still being matched with the gen pop. Over time you'll see less and less differentiation as the general masses catches up in loot.

Basically it's bitching about people who got a head start but the chasm between point A and point B in progression is quite vast.
I think you're missing the point: I'm saying the optimal system would be to avoid microtransactions and pay-to-win mechanics entirely, because decent ranking systems will help mitigate the issue of some people not having as much time as others to play a game.

I don't care what was already implemented in this game, because my statement was retorting the notion that pay-to-win mechanics are an appropriate method of leveling the playing field.
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Old 11-29-2017, 08:18 AM   #24
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Put up different types of servers then, one with pay-to-win enabled and one without, see what set gets the more playtime. Without a pitchfork-wielding working class to subdue, I'm confident the armor-clad aristocracy would be a total no-show.
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Old 11-29-2017, 09:53 AM   #25
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I think I can sum this up with less paragraphs.

Video gamers that play in competitive games want an even playing field.
... Except that many of them don't.

A LOT of people who play competitive games want to have leverage because they want to win. That's why people cheat. They want it to be "competitive" only as much as they want to watch other people struggle while they win.

I feel like the number of gamers who like strict, all-level, skill based play are fairly uncommon.
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Old 11-29-2017, 09:58 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Fubl View Post
Publishers will never learn

Game variations killed in the last decade:
plastic Guitar games
toys to life
Skateboard games

game types that have reduced production since the early 00's:
flight sims/ space sims
mech sims
RTS
building games

This also might be the death kneel for the first person shooter. Just look at the numbers there use to be more companies making them but now unless its a big publisher theres nothing else, and people are getting tired of the ones released.
I would argue that the first person shooter has been dead since Half Life 2. That's when I feel like FPS games jumped the shark. After that, the concept became ruled by on the multiplayer front, TF2 clones, and on the single player front, story-based roller coasters where you walk in a straight line and stuff happens in front of your face until somebody tells you that you won. (As opposed to the maze-like FPS games of earlier generations where the locus of power lied with the player to make decisions about how to progress.)

I guess Battlefield also changed the landscape.
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:25 AM   #28
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Yeah, FPS'es don't mean jack-shit anymore, it feels like so much formulaic yada-yada these days for someone who experienced its exciting genesis. Thank god rocket league took that type of experience forwards, or I'd probably stop it already with the fast-paced FPS'ish format.

As for where to draw the line on how much a player "should" be able to boost his default game performance, that comes down to whether the game in question is potentially a competitive sport or not. If it isn't, fine. Cheat, hack, pay, grind all you want to blast through it. Do some heroin and watch a Longplay. If it is potentially a sport, it automatically disqualifies itself by allowing any element that removes the even playing field.

Clearly Star Wars Battlefront II isn't going to become a competitive sport with these mechanics in, but you could argue that by offering a Star Wars experience, there should be some marked difference between what's consider wrong/right, light/dark, fair/unfair. Or maybe I feel that way because my formative Star Wars experience was the 1st trilogy. I'd love to see EA try to balance a Star Wars game where the dark side was pay-to-win, and light side was not, if they were sincere about their ambitions. Then the Star Wars signature good/evil divide might actually mean something again. Not bloody likely.
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:50 AM   #29
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EA had a massive SP Star Wars game in development by Visceral Games and helmed by Amy Hennig, the woman behind the Uncharted series. They cancelled it: “It was an economic decision at the end of the day", EA says. Yeah, of course it was. In this Koraku article they quote a dev, “EA executives are like, ‘FIFA Ultimate Team makes a billion dollars a year.’ Where’s your version of that?”. They killed the game because the development team didn't design it from the ground up to require micro-transactions.

EA is not looking good right now, and I'm not just talking about the very public backlash from SWBFII. In addition to that fiasco, they've ruined both the Need For Speed and Mass Effect IPs and closed Visceral Games. And that's all in the past 12 months. They've published just one new triple A IP in the past 5 years, TitanFall, and they didn't even develop that. EA has exactly one new IP scheduled in 2018, Anthem. I think their stock is going to continue to plummet.
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Old 11-29-2017, 12:03 PM   #30
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I think their stock is going to continue to plummet.
I don't think they're good for gaming, so I don't see a big loss for gamers if they die. Loss for their employees, yes, but not for gaming as a whole. Their most popular IP would be picked up elsewhere and perhaps treated with more care and respect.
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Old 11-29-2017, 12:15 PM   #31
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... Except that many of them don't.

A LOT of people who play competitive games want to have leverage because they want to win. That's why people cheat. They want it to be "competitive" only as much as they want to watch other people struggle while they win.
I worked with a Creative Director who had previously been involved in many studies about competitive behavior. Sadly they generally boiled down to: most people want to pwn everyone else most of the time. Despite declaring they want to fight people of their own skill level they don't actually want competition except on the rare occasions after they get their validation and ego boosting from stomping the 9/10 others. This is what leads to steamroll pre-mades in MOBAs, twinking in MMO Battlegrounds/PvP, gloating/teabagging and other behavior which can often be considered Toxic.

They simply want to feel the adrenaline rush of winning. This is why different ladders and matchmaking schemes are all, at some point in time, declared as "unfair" and "biased".

There are only a few who want to compete a majority of the time and those are the ones you find in competitive gaming circles. Unfortunately you'll see a lot of shady folks there as well as they qualify but once at the live events the rubber hits the road and most can back up their stats.
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Old 11-29-2017, 02:43 PM   #32
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Making some waves now.
When shareholders lose money like THAT, some exec has to pay.
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Old 11-29-2017, 02:59 PM   #33
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When shareholders lose money like THAT, some exec has to pay.
The current CEO of EA, Andrew Wilson, has consistently played it safe, only pushing sequels to existing IPs. This is the guy that invented the P2W system in FIFA way back in the day. His only real contribution at EA has been to push loot crates/cards/etc into every game EA has been putting out. With so much bad press and ill will about the loot crates in SWBF2, and the bad taste the P2W systems in Need For Speed and Mass Effect left in players' mouths, I wouldn't be surprised if he got booted in favor of a CEO capable of working with more traditional revenue streams (ie: make good games, sell good games).
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Old 11-29-2017, 03:17 PM   #34
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The current CEO of EA, Andrew Wilson, has consistently played it safe, only pushing sequels to existing IPs. This is the guy that invented the P2W system in FIFA way back in the day. His only real contribution at EA has been to push loot crates/cards/etc into every game EA has been putting out. With so much bad press and ill will about the loot crates in SWBF2, and the bad taste the P2W systems in Need For Speed and Mass Effect left in players' mouths, I wouldn't be surprised if he got booted in favor of a CEO capable of working with more traditional revenue streams (ie: make good games, sell good games).

Didn't Andrew Wilson take over for that one guy who was too gamer-friendly, though?

EA had that one guy who came in and was like, "Hey! EA sucks and we're going to start making game-ass-games again!" He made a whole front of games. I think the first Mirror's Edge was one, and the Marvel: Rise OF The Imperfects (Who were supposed to be EA owned Superheroes that would be in a bunch of games) was another one.

All the games he made wound up failing which is what I think got him fired and ushered in the age of the more business focused leadership.
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Old 11-29-2017, 03:31 PM   #35
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Their stock price may have took a hit but overall they are still up this year over last year so when this smooths over this year was still a win for them.

A drop in the bucket.
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Old 11-29-2017, 03:45 PM   #36
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Didn't Andrew Wilson take over for that one guy who was too gamer-friendly, though?

EA had that one guy who came in and was like, "Hey! EA sucks and we're going to start making game-ass-games again!" He made a whole front of games. I think the first Mirror's Edge was one, and the Marvel: Rise OF The Imperfects (Who were supposed to be EA owned Superheroes that would be in a bunch of games) was another one.

All the games he made wound up failing which is what I think got him fired and ushered in the age of the more business focused leadership.
EA took a lot of creative risks in the 00's and early teens. Not all of their new IP was a success, as you mentioned, but they published a lot of new franchises that were well received and are still looked upon fondly today (even if their sequels aren't):
  • Dragon Age
  • Dead Space
  • Crysis
  • Mass Effect
  • Bulletstorm
  • Alice: Madness Returns
  • Probably a few others I can't think of right now
They put out a lot of smaller, non-AAA games as well: Shank and Warp come to mind.

They haven't done anything like that at all in the past 5 years since Wilson has been at the helm. Their entire revenue stream is based on microtransactions. Now that people are finally starting to rail against this system (real people, not just those weirdos that post on gaming forums), and several countries, including the United States, are considering regulating the practice, we might finally see some real change in EA and the industry. Whatever direction they decide to go in has to be better than where we are now.
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Old 11-29-2017, 04:38 PM   #37
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EA had a massive SP Star Wars game in development by Visceral Games and helmed by Amy Hennig, the woman behind the Uncharted series. They cancelled it: “It was an economic decision at the end of the day", EA says. Yeah, of course it was. In this Koraku article they quote a dev, “EA executives are like, ‘FIFA Ultimate Team makes a billion dollars a year.’ Where’s your version of that?”. They killed the game because the development team didn't design it from the ground up to require micro-transactions.
That title got moved to another studio. After Mass Effect: Andromeda earlier this year, you can't blame EA for wanting to avoid repeating that incident. Whole lot of corroboration floating around that there were a ton of issues behind the development of that game well beyond 'games as a service' and MT's.

From your article:

Quote:
But the story behind Ragtag is more complicated than critics and pundits have assumed, and the project was more troubled than EA has admitted publicly. Among game developers, it’s been an open secret for months that Visceral’s game was in danger. The studio had been bleeding staff for years, and recruiters across the video game industry exchanged whispers about Visceral employees who were looking for new work, according to several people who have shared these rumors with me over the past couple of years.

Over the past week I’ve talked to nearly a dozen former Visceral employees who worked on Ragtag, all of whom spoke anonymously because they did not want to risk damaging their careers. I’ve also spoken to several other developers who are tangentially connected to Visceral. They all share similar stories. Ragtag was a project sunk by many factors, including a lack of resources, a vision that was too ambitious for its budget, a difficult game engine, a director who clashed with staff, a studio located in one of the most expensive cities in the world, a reputation for toxicity, multiple conflicts between Visceral and EA, and what can only be described as the curse of Star Wars.
Respawn and Motive are also developing Star Wars games, and the EA buyout of Respawn was reportedly largely motivated by the Star Wars game they're developing.
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Old 11-29-2017, 04:56 PM   #38
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Didn't Andrew Wilson take over for that one guy who was too gamer-friendly, though?

EA had that one guy who came in and was like, "Hey! EA sucks and we're going to start making game-ass-games again!" He made a whole front of games.
Andrew Wilson better be careful. The House of Mouse just destroyed Gazillion Entertainment by pulling the Marvel License years earlier than expected because they weren't treating it properly. If they feel EA isn't doing right by Star Wars they may need to:

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