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Old 03-02-2017, 04:44 PM   #21
Anemone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElektroDragon View Post
So then why the FUCK is my stock in the tank?! Jeezus good thing I had a decent stop quote order. Still ended up losing $235 when I had a profit of $3000 just 2 days ago. God damned joke!
Heh, it's only a profit if you sold.
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Old 03-02-2017, 05:08 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Anemone View Post
Heh, it's only a profit if you sold.
One day I will learn that.
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Old 03-02-2017, 05:12 PM   #23
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AMD deserves kudos here.
This has to be one of the largest disconnects I have ever seen, seriously. What world are people living in where this looks good?

Quote:
No, it’s not a dud—unless you’re looking to replace a 5-year-old, quad-core Intel Core i5 chip for mainstream gaming at the most popular display resolution. There, the Ryzen 7 1700 can stumble, and stumble hard.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/31761...er.html?page=2

That isn't just plain bad, that is a failure that dwarfs the epic failure that was Bulldozer. What we have seen is that if you are using apps that run significantly better on CUDA, but for some reason you are one of the dumbest people on the planet and aren't using it, the sometimes it can edge out the i7 that costs almost the same, and *MAYBE* the RAM you get will actually work- some reviewers couldn't get the RAM AMD provided to......

It is a level of incompetence that hints that an investigation will be forthcoming. This reaks of insider trading scandal.

Bulldozer was under $250 and had better relative performance-

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4955/t...x8150-tested/7

THAT was considered an epic failure, Ryzen isn't that good.
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Old 03-02-2017, 06:42 PM   #24
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Once again Ben overreacts. Let me point out Ars points:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017...n-review/3/#h4

The good

Eight cores and 16 threads at half the price of Intel
Excellent performance in workstation applications
AM4 is a modern, full-featured platform
While only a small performance boost, XFR is zero-effort and works well

The bad

Gaming performance is weak compared to Intel, particularly in modern titles
Specialised AVX applications will perform better under Intel

The ugly

A higher-clocked quad-core chip like the Intel i7-7700K or 7600K is still the best choice of processor for no-compromise gamers

You see that 1st point? That means A LOT.
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Old 03-02-2017, 06:49 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by brandonjclark View Post
Once again Ben overreacts. Let me point out Ars points:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017...n-review/3/#h4

The good

Eight cores and 16 threads at half the price of Intel
Excellent performance in workstation applications
AM4 is a modern, full-featured platform
While only a small performance boost, XFR is zero-effort and works well

The bad

Gaming performance is weak compared to Intel, particularly in modern titles
Specialised AVX applications will perform better under Intel

The ugly

A higher-clocked quad-core chip like the Intel i7-7700K or 7600K is still the best choice of processor for no-compromise gamers

You see that 1st point? That means A LOT.
I'd say the 2nd and third points mean more. AMD is still way behind
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Old 03-02-2017, 08:33 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by SpectralThundr View Post
I'd say the 2nd and third points mean more. AMD is still way behind
Are they? I'm serious. I'm not so sure. I still see these selling really well. They could in fact sell VERY well.

I know this is a gaming website and people around here are going to favor gaming performance above all, but what about all of the people who do more than game?

I'm a gamer but I also use my PC for a million other things. BTW, when did it become cool to only use your PC for gaming? wtf?

I think AMD will still sell a lot of these. And don't get me started on the R5 series, the quads and the 1600x 6-core. They will sell a shit ton, too.
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Old 03-02-2017, 08:53 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ElektroDragon View Post
One day I will learn that.
I think you'd do better buying and holding on the fundamentals, but to each their own, it's your money.
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Old 03-02-2017, 09:22 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by brandonjclark View Post
I'm a gamer but I also use my PC for a million other things. BTW, when did it become cool to only use your PC for gaming? wtf?
...this is a gaming site so we're a bit biased.

You don't build a PC with top of the line cpu and gpu to do data entry all day or browse the web. Gaming matters because it's the bleeding edge. These are the people who are going to fork over more money than anyone else for the best hardware you can make. It doesn't pay to cater to mom and pop who want to check their email.
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Old 03-02-2017, 09:36 PM   #29
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These are the people who are going to fork over more money than anyone else for the best hardware you can make.
Maybe in single threading? If multi-core is not very important to a lot of people, why is the i7-6900 8xmulticore chip $1050 an and the i7-7700 best single-thread chip about ~$500? Someone's paying for multicore and paying a lot.

If gaming is the application everyone will pay the most for, why aren't those prices reversed.
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Old 03-02-2017, 10:36 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by screwyluie View Post
...this is a gaming site so we're a bit biased.

You don't build a PC with top of the line cpu and gpu to do data entry all day or browse the web. Gaming matters because it's the bleeding edge. These are the people who are going to fork over more money than anyone else for the best hardware you can make. It doesn't pay to cater to mom and pop who want to check their email.
I do more than check email, and yes my parents don't. However, you wouldn't be PAYING top of the line with AMD. right?



RIGHT?!
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Old 03-02-2017, 10:44 PM   #31
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I am VERY disappointed in this release. All the reviews show a slightly slower 6900K for $500 that, much like the 6900K, isn't the right CPU for consumer software or gaming. Worse, no one can get RAM speeds to work on ANY motherboard. Linus failed with a top of the line ASUS ROG board to his RAM kit's rated speed. Every benchmark looks like an advertisement for the 7700K. I guess that's my next CPU.
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Old 03-03-2017, 12:53 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by brandonjclark View Post
I do more than check email, and yes my parents don't. However, you wouldn't be PAYING top of the line with AMD. right?



RIGHT?!
Of course you wouldn't because like I said AMD and really by extension ATI just aren't as good as Intel or Nvidia parts.
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Old 03-03-2017, 03:19 AM   #33
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Once again Ben overreacts.
Really now? The fact that the chipset is defective and fails to run RAM at its rated speed by default removes this from any serious business considerations- this platform is *NOT READY* to launch, period. No self respecting IT person is going to lose their job for ordering a dozen workstations that fail to post because of defective AMD tech. Then we move on to AMD's wanting reviewers to run benches that are GPGPU friendly, and are handled much better by GPGPU, and for some reason the testers revert to some decade old approach of using a CPU, which gets schooled, versus a GPU. Then we move to the fact that this doesn't have support for ECC which by default rules it out completely for any high end/serious workstation duties(that's pretending that their chipset functioned in the first place). We can even go one step further, let's pretend gaming performance doesn't matter.

So let's play a game, count AMD wins vs Intel, and if AMD doesn't win what's the cheapest Intel chip that beats it?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11170/...0x-and-1700/17

$170
$157
AMD Win
$999
$999
$303
$170
$242
$339

Those are general CPU benches, six out of nine Intel is the better value, some of them aren't even close. Now we move on to benches that would normally be GPU fair, but we are ignoring that-

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11170/...0x-and-1700/18

$1089
$999
$999
AMD Win
$157
AMD Win

Finally! We see AMD being competitive in this subset of unrealistic benches!

Next up we have the WebTests-

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11170/...0x-and-1700/19

$168
$157
$157
$168
$170

Curb stomped there. Encoding up next, another GPGPU strong point-

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11170/...0x-and-1700/20

AMD Win
$999
AMD Win
$1089
$999
$339
$339

Another decent showing for AMD, again, we have to ignore GPGPU, but it still looks good. Start going over the numbers and actually look at them. The only areas these CPUs bench well in, is an area that has been taken over by GPUs. Are you going to drop $500 for a CPU and software render your games? Because that is the type of approach you are using to try and make this look good. Even with that taken into account, it still loses very often to cheaper and sometimes much cheaper Intel offerings.

That is all ignoring the defective chipsets and not looking at a single gaming benchmark. This an absolutely epic fail on AMD's part.
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Old 03-03-2017, 04:15 AM   #34
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At least it launched the same day in Brazil and is MUCH cheaper than Intel's offerings here.

Which arrive a couple months late, at least.

In the US bubble it might be curb stomped by Intel. But AMD has been affordable world over, and is still used in countries where you shouldn't whine about earning 6 figures.

AMD 1800x is about 3 minimum (monthly) wages in Brazil. An Intel 6900 is about 8 minimum wages. An 6700k is about the same price as an 1800x but the mother board cost twice as much.

So, in the end, they are still competitive and it is good news, even though they are not ahead, they are well.

And of course they are going to lose to everyone. Everyone has been coding using Intel proprietary tech for years now. No one wrote a single line of code for Ryzen.

Of course this is somewhat of a pass for AMD and a not-so-stellar-as-hyped launch, but we need competition. And Intel is going to use the full force of law (and money, and lawyers) to protect it's IPs and bar AMD from ever benefitting from specialized code for it's CPUs.
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:41 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenSkywlkr View Post
Really now? The fact that the chipset is defective and fails to run RAM at its rated speed by default removes this from any serious business considerations- this platform is *NOT READY* to launch, period. No self respecting IT person is going to lose their job for ordering a dozen workstations that fail to post because of defective AMD tech. Then we move on to AMD's wanting reviewers to run benches that are GPGPU friendly, and are handled much better by GPGPU, and for some reason the testers revert to some decade old approach of using a CPU, which gets schooled, versus a GPU. Then we move to the fact that this doesn't have support for ECC which by default rules it out completely for any high end/serious workstation duties(that's pretending that their chipset functioned in the first place). We can even go one step further, let's pretend gaming performance doesn't matter.

So let's play a game, count AMD wins vs Intel, and if AMD doesn't win what's the cheapest Intel chip that beats it?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11170/...0x-and-1700/17

$170
$157
AMD Win
$999
$999
$303
$170
$242
$339

Those are general CPU benches, six out of nine Intel is the better value, some of them aren't even close. Now we move on to benches that would normally be GPU fair, but we are ignoring that-

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11170/...0x-and-1700/18

$1089
$999
$999
AMD Win
$157
AMD Win

Finally! We see AMD being competitive in this subset of unrealistic benches!

Next up we have the WebTests-

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11170/...0x-and-1700/19

$168
$157
$157
$168
$170

Curb stomped there. Encoding up next, another GPGPU strong point-

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11170/...0x-and-1700/20

AMD Win
$999
AMD Win
$1089
$999
$339
$339

Another decent showing for AMD, again, we have to ignore GPGPU, but it still looks good. Start going over the numbers and actually look at them. The only areas these CPUs bench well in, is an area that has been taken over by GPUs. Are you going to drop $500 for a CPU and software render your games? Because that is the type of approach you are using to try and make this look good. Even with that taken into account, it still loses very often to cheaper and sometimes much cheaper Intel offerings.

That is all ignoring the defective chipsets and not looking at a single gaming benchmark. This an absolutely epic fail on AMD's part.

I'm pretty sure the RAM issue will be sorted and it's NOT an issue with the CPU's.

Also, are there other reasons to want multiple cores other than encoding? YES, you say?
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Old 03-03-2017, 10:21 AM   #36
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As Ben states, the inability for the platform to run RAM properly is a death knell for a number of applications. Its lack of support for more than 4 RAM slots or ECC memory makes it invalid for a number of others. Its gaming benchmarks looks like a chart Intel would put in a powerpoint to brag. Really, I cannot see a use case for Ryzen at all except for prompting a Hyper-thread enabled i5.
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Old 03-03-2017, 10:25 AM   #37
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I'm pretty sure the RAM issue will be sorted and it's NOT an issue with the CPU's.
We expect those things to be sorted out during development. This is NOT OK, this is a catastrophic failure point- Intel would issue a recall if such a bug were discovered, AMD does a launch instead.....

Quote:
Also, are there other reasons to want multiple cores other than encoding?
Lots of them, that's why I rock a GPU with thousands of cores. Why don't you try and explain the possible advantages that a CPU with hell give it 20 cores has versus a GPU with thousands.

Once again, the world has moved beyond AMD. What this CPU would have been good at, doesn't matter nearly as much anymore. The big push in the computing world now is TOPS, and the top of the line Ryzen gets throttled senseless by years old sub $200 GPUs. Rendering and encoding are both done, normally *much* faster, on a GPU. Furthermore, it is a *MUCH* cheaper way to gain the performance for those tasks. Even if you stick to 1080Ti, $700 is cheaper then a new Ryzen 1800x build, and beats it stupid for the tasks it is better then Intel at.

Now, multitasking, having reserve resources left over for the OS, running a bunch of browser instances along with applications trying to get work done- these are the types of things where AMD still gets its ass handed to it. Sub $200 Intel CPUs regularly besting the significantly more expensive AMD offering.

When all is said and done and looked at in an objective manner- what could you do with a 1800x system better then an i5? The fact that AMD costs quite a bit more and is stupidly less reliable are other factors entirely, what advantages does it have?
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Old 03-03-2017, 10:39 AM   #38
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Why don't you try and explain the possible advantages that a CPU with hell give it 20 cores has versus a GPU with thousands.

Have you heard of a little thing called virtualization?
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Old 03-03-2017, 11:24 AM   #39
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As Ben states, the inability for the platform to run RAM properly is a death knell for a number of applications. Its lack of support for more than 4 RAM slots or ECC memory makes it invalid for a number of others. Its gaming benchmarks looks like a chart Intel would put in a powerpoint to brag. Really, I cannot see a use case for Ryzen at all except for prompting a Hyper-thread enabled i5.
That is incorrect. Ryzen DOES support ECC out of the BOX.

ECC must be enabled in the BIOS, so, the motherboard guys must enable it.

All platforms had their teething issues, and there have been a ton of updates on intel mobos (how fast people forget!), and the same will happen with AMD.

Why have higher than 4 DIMMs for a consumer board? AMD don't do quad channel.

Check out https://www.servethehome.com/amd-ryz...ux-benchmarks/ if you want to see how it does with lots of different workloads. That is nothing to sneeze at, it is competing (& beating) with chips many times higher than what it costs!

As for gaming, windows needs a kernel update to fix some of this, and let me quote this
Quote:
  1. Windows is load-balancing across CCXes. This means that a thread is being moved around on the CPU - which is normal - so that a single core isn't used more than others. On Ryzen, that needs to happen ONLY within a CCX, otherwise you will incur a massive penalty when that thread no longer finds its data in the caches of the CCX.
  2. SMT hurts single threaded performance due to shared structure. Ryzen statically partitions three structures to support SMT: Micro-op queue (dispatcher), Retirement queue, Store queue. This means that, with SMT enabled, these resources are cut, potentially, in HALF (mind you, these are just queues that impact throughput of a single thread).
  3. Memory latency quirks still not worked out. Gaming can be quite sensitive to memory latency and bandwidth. These issues will be, most likely, remedied with BIOS updates.
Relax people, it still offers awesome value, and again, brings back competition!

This all boils down to, everything is new from the ground up, it needs some time for all the players to catch up--which is nothing new, ALL platforms have had these kind of issues.

Oh, and yeah, they should have timed Ryzen release with MS's kernel updates, but, they didn't which was a mistake.
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Old 03-03-2017, 12:39 PM   #40
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Why have higher than 4 DIMMs for a consumer board? AMD don't do quad channel.
I have 6 slots on my board and I'm using them all. It's good to have options
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