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Old 01-08-2019, 01:41 AM   #21
holysin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DingBat View Post
Who says you can't still tilt at windmills these days?

I get it. I do. As a white male, I can see why many of my fellow white males feel persecuted. And, yes, there are strident voices looking to blame us for just about everything. Assholes abound.

On the other hand...

A couple of weeks ago, the movie The Imitation Game popped up on my recommendation list again, for some reason, on Netflix. I hadn't seen it in a few years so I watched it again (I'm a software engineer by trade, so this is one of my favorite movies).

Anyway, if you haven't watched it, in the end of the movie the main character, Alan Turing, who may well be one of the most brilliant minds of the 20th century (and a white male) was convicted of "sexual deviancy" because he was a homosexual. As a result he was unable to work and was sentenced to chemical castration. He committed suicide a few years later.

He was not alone in being charged as a criminal for his sexual orientation. This is not ancient history. It was 50 years ago.

Thirty years ago, more than a few people believed that AIDS was punishment from God. Some still believe that today. Even today, kids are being sent to gay conversion therapy camps.

The point is: there are people alive today, that you could meet on the streets, who have LIVED through this. It's not history, or theoretical to them. I can safely say that while I may have been annoyed at some of the rhetoric aimed at white males these days, I've never been persecuted. Certainly not with the same definition of "persecution" that some homosexuals have experienced.

So I find it hard to become outraged over gay characters in a game, even if asking why anyone should care about sexual orientation in a game is a fair question (well, except for games like Baldur's Gate and Mass Effect, where its a game in itself). I imagine many of the non-asshole homosexual gamers just simply wouldn't mind some recognition that they actually exist.

If you made it this far, good on you. Hold on a little longer.

Now, did any of you do this to them? No. Some assholes did. So, yeah, we're getting tarred by a broad brush. And God knows some of the things that the more radical in the LGBTQ... movement do are offensive, cynical, and just plain crazy. Assholes abound. Public discourse these days seems to be taken over by assholes screaming at each other.

I don't know what the answer is, frankly. I do think we should ignore more of the assholes more often. Some assholes are certainly worth fighting, but is the addition of a gay character to fiction related to a game really one of those cases?

Thanks for reading.
</windmill-tilting>
Itís nice to read a comment with some common sense.

What is wrong with people who wine and complain when itís revealed that some fictional character is gay? Why do they feel the need to fight it? Weíre living in scary times.
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Old 01-08-2019, 01:59 AM   #22
SpectralThundr
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Originally Posted by holysin View Post
Itís nice to read a comment with some common sense.

What is wrong with people who wine and complain when itís revealed that some fictional character is gay? Why do they feel the need to fight it? Weíre living in scary times.
I know right? Why would any one fight this kinda thing?

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/11...s-toss-money-a

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3709559/posts

https://thegoldwater.com/news/43383-...o-Accept-LGBTs

Gays are so awesome! Let's push them in every single media known to man, politicizing video games is so brave! You people are morons. So afraid of being labeled some form of racism that you're too fucking afraid to use your brains.
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Old 01-08-2019, 02:39 AM   #23
PatrickRes9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DingBat View Post
Who says you can't still tilt at windmills these days?

I get it. I do. As a white male, I can see why many of my fellow white males feel persecuted. And, yes, there are strident voices looking to blame us for just about everything. Assholes abound.

On the other hand...

A couple of weeks ago, the movie The Imitation Game popped up on my recommendation list again, for some reason, on Netflix. I hadn't seen it in a few years so I watched it again (I'm a software engineer by trade, so this is one of my favorite movies).

Anyway, if you haven't watched it, in the end of the movie the main character, Alan Turing, who may well be one of the most brilliant minds of the 20th century (and a white male) was convicted of "sexual deviancy" because he was a homosexual. As a result he was unable to work and was sentenced to chemical castration. He committed suicide a few years later.

He was not alone in being charged as a criminal for his sexual orientation. This is not ancient history. It was 50 years ago.

Thirty years ago, more than a few people believed that AIDS was punishment from God. Some still believe that today. Even today, kids are being sent to gay conversion therapy camps.

The point is: there are people alive today, that you could meet on the streets, who have LIVED through this. It's not history, or theoretical to them. I can safely say that while I may have been annoyed at some of the rhetoric aimed at white males these days, I've never been persecuted. Certainly not with the same definition of "persecution" that some homosexuals have experienced.

So I find it hard to become outraged over gay characters in a game, even if asking why anyone should care about sexual orientation in a game is a fair question (well, except for games like Baldur's Gate and Mass Effect, where its a game in itself). I imagine many of the non-asshole homosexual gamers just simply wouldn't mind some recognition that they actually exist.

If you made it this far, good on you. Hold on a little longer.

Now, did any of you do this to them? No. Some assholes did. So, yeah, we're getting tarred by a broad brush. And God knows some of the things that the more radical in the LGBTQ... movement do are offensive, cynical, and just plain crazy. Assholes abound. Public discourse these days seems to be taken over by assholes screaming at each other.

I don't know what the answer is, frankly. I do think we should ignore more of the assholes more often. Some assholes are certainly worth fighting, but is the addition of a gay character to fiction related to a game really one of those cases?

Thanks for reading.
</windmill-tilting>
I agree with what you're saying here mostly but. I'm glad we've made progress at least as a society here in the states (and likely elsewhere) on how we treat gay people. My issue isn't with the existence of a gay character. It's more the need at all to include sexual orientation in games like Overwatch at all. Especially after the fact. If you leave all of those things unsaid, then one can imagine whatever they want. Wouldn't that be a better approach anyway? If just seems like unnecessary pandering. If I were gay, I'd almost be offended. "Oh, thanks for throwing us a bone here - eyeroll".

Characters of fiction can become loved by people. Part of that is RELATABILITY. Take Dumbledore for example. people all over the world fell in love with that character. Now it's later revealed hes gay, destroying some of that relatable element for some for no reason.

Same for people into Overwatch. The people into the lore are passionate about the characters. Why destroy any of that relatability for people who enjoy playing that avatar?

I am a white male. I do not feel ostracized or marginalized or angry that I am "under represented". I'm not angry and ready to march on Blizzard's office about it. But this is a forum to discuss games. I just think it's needless. Especially this late in the game's cycle. It feels phony.
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Old 01-08-2019, 03:20 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by PatrickRes9 View Post
I agree with what you're saying here mostly but. I'm glad we've made progress at least as a society here in the states (and likely elsewhere) on how we treat gay people. My issue isn't with the existence of a gay character. It's more the need at all to include sexual orientation in games like Overwatch at all. Especially after the fact. If you leave all of those things unsaid, then one can imagine whatever they want. Wouldn't that be a better approach anyway? If just seems like unnecessary pandering. If I were gay, I'd almost be offended. "Oh, thanks for throwing us a bone here - eyeroll".

Characters of fiction can become loved by people. Part of that is RELATABILITY. Take Dumbledore for example. people all over the world fell in love with that character. Now it's later revealed hes gay, destroying some of that relatable element for some for no reason.

Same for people into Overwatch. The people into the lore are passionate about the characters. Why destroy any of that relatability for people who enjoy playing that avatar?

I am a white male. I do not feel ostracized or marginalized or angry that I am "under represented". I'm not angry and ready to march on Blizzard's office about it. But this is a forum to discuss games. I just think it's needless. Especially this late in the game's cycle. It feels phony.
The ostracized remark is what liberals use to attack the person rather than the message, it's like calling someone racist when they can't debate what was just said. They hate it when you call propaganda out for what it is, propaganda.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:00 AM   #25
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That Jew.

What's your fucking question?
Why are you a racist? I think that was the question.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:07 AM   #26
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Why are you a racist? I think that was the question.
Lol! .
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:12 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by SpectralThundr View Post
The ostracized remark is what liberals use to attack the person rather than the message, it's like calling someone racist when they can't debate what was just said. They hate it when you call propaganda out for what it is, propaganda.
Yah it's way off base. At least for me. i don't feel ostracized. That's not how I feel at all. It's more about the lack of genuineness behind the action that frustrates me. To me, it's almost more marginalizing to gay people than saying nothing at all. By making sexuality a thing, and then making a few characters gay after the fact, it's like saying "oh, you wanted some relatability too? Fine. Here you go."
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:26 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by SpectralThundr View Post
I know right? Why would any one fight this kinda thing?

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/11...s-toss-money-a

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3709559/posts

https://thegoldwater.com/news/43383-...o-Accept-LGBTs

Gays are so awesome! Let's push them in every single media known to man, politicizing video games is so brave! You people are morons. So afraid of being labeled some form of racism that you're too fucking afraid to use your brains.
If one looks hard enough these days one will surely find examples of assholes in any group of humans. In fact, these days, one does not have to look very hard at all. The media hunts down these examples in order to drum up outrage. Outrage is the grist that drives clicks, after all.

This is not a "left" or "right" thing. It's just a thing. Extreme politics, at either end of the spectrum, deliberately work to remove tolerance to other points of view and remove empathy for other groups of human beings. Because people with empathy don't tend to wish ill on other humans.

That is how a thread on a gaming site regarding the introduction of a gay character into a game becomes an angry outcry on the destruction of society.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:29 AM   #29
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For the last couple of months, the only Blizzard game I had installed was Overwatch and that was because once in a while my kids wanted to play it. Now that's uninstalled too. We have so many options for games and entertainment. I just don't need the shambling corpse that was once known as Blizzard.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:29 AM   #30
DingBat
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I agree with what you're saying here mostly but. I'm glad we've made progress at least as a society here in the states (and likely elsewhere) on how we treat gay people. My issue isn't with the existence of a gay character. It's more the need at all to include sexual orientation in games like Overwatch at all.
Absolutely. It's hard to understand why the sexual orientation of the characters in the game is even interesting. In Baldur's Gate 2 or Mass Effect it was actually part of the game, but in Overwatch? Why? It does feel like a checkbox being checked.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:30 AM   #31
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Yah it's way off base. At least for me. i don't feel ostracized. That's not how I feel at all. It's more about the lack of genuineness behind the action that frustrates me. To me, it's almost more marginalizing to gay people than saying nothing at all. By making sexuality a thing, and then making a few characters gay after the fact, it's like saying "oh, you wanted some relatability too? Fine. Here you go."
I was leaning toward the comment above that they are video game characters, so unless your game is a romance simulator they don't need a sexuality.

Like you say, this is just straight-up pandering. (Straight up, get it? nudge, nudge, wink, wink.) And it is exactly the kind of pandering that GamerGate predicted just a few years ago.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:31 AM   #32
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Why are you a racist? I think that was the question.
I think so, too.

But sometimes it's just nice to be called one.

In all fairness, I'm Jew-Neutral.

I just thought adding a pointless descriptor was in the spirit of the thread.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:33 AM   #33
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I just thought adding a pointless descriptor was in the spirit of the thread.
It's also the point behind this pandering move by Buzzard.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:35 AM   #34
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It's also the point behind this pandering move by Buzzard.
Ding Ding Ding!

We have a winner!
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:35 AM   #35
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I think so, too.

But sometimes it's just nice to be called one.

In all fairness, I'm Jew-Neutral.

I just thought adding a pointless descriptor was in the spirit of the thread.
Yea, I'm just hacking on you. It did seem like you were just rolling with the punches. I was just wondering if he called himself that during the show. Comedians often use their own racial stereotypes. At least they used to until it became politically toxic to tell any jokes that aren't just thinly veiled Trump slams.
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:10 AM   #36
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Characters of fiction can become loved by people. Part of that is RELATABILITY. Take Dumbledore for example. people all over the world fell in love with that character. Now it's later revealed hes gay, destroying some of that relatable element for some for no reason.
Looking at this from another angle, the loss of a handful of "relatable" characters isn't that big of a deal for many of us. The majority of us in the room are straight, white males...and there is a nearly endless supply of straight, white, male characters in fiction for us to relate to.

People like having characters they can relate to, which is why characters like Miles Morales, or even Dumbledore, are so important to people. I can honestly say that I don't really know what it's like to grow up surrounded by media filled with characters who don't look or talk like me...which means it's pretty easy for me to throw out blanket statements like, "Oh, they're just pandering to <Group X> by introducing <Character Y>, or saying <Character Z> is gay."

Sure, folks like me no longer have Dumbledore or Soldier 76 to "relate to"...but that's okay, I think. It's a good thing to have some diversity amongst fictional characters because everyone deserves to have a character or three they can relate to. With that being said, it's certainly possible to swing things too far in the opposite direction...and maybe the stuff they're doing with Overwatch is an example of that.

Ultimately, I can't get too worked up over a change being made to the backstory of an Overwatch character; none of it affects the gameplay at all. It's just part of the lore that is available for folks to dig into if they wish to do so.
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:18 AM   #37
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The Dumbledore reveal was so stupid. It was done way after the fact because that was the safe time to do so. But it's cowardly too. If you're so pro-gay then lead with it. If you're going to make a gay character then make them gay from the outset if it's that big of a deal to you (and it don't say it's not a big deal to "you"... it is and we all know it.) This whole taking a fan favorite and then revealing them to be gay is a combo of pandering and a gutless bait and switch.
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:21 AM   #38
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If one looks hard enough these days one will surely find examples of assholes in any group of humans. In fact, these days, one does not have to look very hard at all. The media hunts down these examples in order to drum up outrage. Outrage is the grist that drives clicks, after all.

This is not a "left" or "right" thing. It's just a thing. Extreme politics, at either end of the spectrum, deliberately work to remove tolerance to other points of view and remove empathy for other groups of human beings. Because people with empathy don't tend to wish ill on other humans.

That is how a thread on a gaming site regarding the introduction of a gay character into a game becomes an angry outcry on the destruction of society.
My theory is that people who call other snowflakes are the biggest fucking snowflakes of them all.
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:27 AM   #39
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My theory is that people who call other snowflakes are the biggest fucking snowflakes of them all.
You do realize that, ironic intentions or not, you tend to call people snowflakes yourself.
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:28 AM   #40
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Wizz if you think the asault on whites is just in some small circles you haven't been paying attention at all. The way you operate, which is correct and how anyone should be judged, is racist to those on the left. Think about that for a moment.
Yea please don't call me racist. I'm just going on about the white genocide..

"Are the White Nations Dying? The Future of the White and the Colored Nations in the Light of Biological Statistics" Because nothing bad ever came from that fucking fantasy right?

Oh wait.. you mean people pandering to LGBT people (in a very stupid profit mongering divisive way) is an "assault" on whites?

Really... and you don't see the irony of you calling the "libtards" playing the victim card.. when you just did the same fucking thing?

There is absolutely no difference between the ideology you espouse, and that espoused by the far left. You're just a bunch of oversensitive whiny bitches, using legitimate and semi legitimate issue to push your personal brand of idiocy, while you all decry justice for X or Y group and pursue actions that will achieve the opposite of it.

You talk about fucking echo chambers, yet you don't realize that this site is more of an echo chamber than an actual site for discussion.
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